Why do commercial sparks bash house bashers?

[timhoward]

Once left an apprentice to fix a conduit for a sensor in a school boiler house, 2 saddles up a wall and 3 across the ceiling. Got back about 3 hrs later to find it at a 10 degree angle fixed to the ceiling with the outside 2 saddles, the middle one fixed about 1'' to one side of the tube. I CAN laugh NOW!?
He was in the midst of taking it out, I must admit.

It sounds like he almost did the below by accident!

 

[Petej999]

I've just started an apprenticeship with a decent sized firm (I got taken on full time - hooray!) and was thinking this week about how a lot of people, mostly online, turn their nose up at people who do domestic work.

I was wondering why, since at my work everybody seems to do the bare minimum but with most decent domestic sparks i know, they tend to go the extra mile.

Is there a difference in quality of workmanship simply because people want to do a better job for their own customers as opposed to commercial sparks who are simply getting the job done and aren't personally responsible for the final job?

Just seems to be a lot more 'just get it done' mentality on the commercial side.

Another thing i noticed is hardly anyone has the correct tools for the job and the tools they do have are mashed up.

So people will be using blunt cutters where the tip of one side has shattered off, or drivers with half the shaft insulation hanging off. Then there are other things which not bad but just 'doing it the hard way' like cutting PVC conduit with a hack saw having 3m of it flapping about instead of just buying a £10 pipe cutter, or using hammer and chisel/pad saw to cut out for back boxes where the wall is double skinned chipboard/plasterboard because nobody has a multi tool. Putting up conduit? Simply measure out from some maybe straight maybe wonky reference point and use your 6 inch torpedo level to get it right, instead of simply using a proper spirit level, making the job ten times easier.

When in the domestic setting it seems most people have the basic tools that make life easier.

Is it simply a case of 'not my job, don't care that much' on site compared with running private jobs directly in people's homes?

I don't think it's a case of turning up noses Mate, most house bashers are les skilled , not their fault just a case of the pressure of demand, you have slung the wiring in for one new build do the rest of the site with your eyes shut, I did it for a couple of years, not for never again, money was carp as were the conditions, working in those conditions did my whole body no favours whatsoever, basically crippled now, bad back knees etc is it worth it NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Electrics]

It sounds like he almost did the below by accident!
View attachment 90254

'modern art'

 

[Grant1987]

It sounds like he almost did the below by accident!
View attachment 90254

If I seen that I would call 999. My comments were derogatory to the metal munching industry which I do still enjoy just took offence to the house bashers which I’m a member of these days. We are a divisive industry but like I said previously all have the same goal I’ll upload photos tomorrow of my shed all galv conduit and trunking work of art it is. All trainees on here do it all and enjoy the job like I do, infact we all do that’s why we offer our opinions/advice on here ?

 

[Grant1987]

I don't think it's a case of turning up noses Mate, most house bashers are les skilled , not their fault just a case of the pressure of demand, you have slung the wiring in for one new build do the rest of the site with your eyes shut, I did it for a couple of years, not for never again, money was carp as were the conditions, working in those conditions did my whole body no favours whatsoever, basically crippled now, bad back knees etc is it worth it NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

House bashers less skilled shame on you!!!

 

[Grant1987]

House bashers less skilled shame on you!!!

Money crap? Earn more now than I ever have. Built the trust and custom of domestic properties and havnt looked back since #housebasher

 

[Electrics]

Money crap? Earn more now than I ever have. Built the trust and custom of domestic properties and havnt looked back since #housebasher

Yeah i mean on most commercial jobs you're gonna be agency, subbying or working cards in for a contractor. Pay is lousy on most run of the mill jobs. Our lads start on £15.80 an hour rising to £16.50 an hour. £34k a year before tax and overheads. That's crap.

 

[Mikegh]

They do and it's not justified considering how technical the domestic work has got

I've seen the industrial electricians struggle with rcds a few times

 

[Intoelectrics]

They do and it's not justified considering how technical the domestic work has got

I've seen the industrial electricians struggle with rcds a few times

I agree, I don't think we should tar everyone with the same brush. We should applaud and support our industry and the people within it in all aspects of the job! A skilled electrician is a skilled tradesperson regardless of whether its domestic, commercial, industrial or any other...

The crux of the matter is in the training and experience, in my opinion, these days there is not enough of either implemented before a person earns the title of "Electrician".

Unfortunately "house bashing" is one area where a less experienced and poorly learned person can get away with shoddy work or corner cutting because most is hidden and the work is mostly self regulated. So it's natural that a dodgy tradesperson will aim for work where they can earn decent money, be less likely to exposure without the worry of retribution. These people create a stigma around domestic work which tars the proper electricians with the same brush. Its unfair and unjustified, so the last thing we want is slander within our own group.

 

[Grant1987]

I would have to disagree there? Every Commercial & Industrial Job requires testing and Certificates handing in, in-fact the testing is more involved in an industrial/commercial environment, I frequently do work in schools and no stone goes unturned & certificates are allways handed in. Test & Inspecting factories can be a complex & lengthy procedure. Im not knocking Domestic Electricians at all, Ive seen some tremendously skilled ones who have completed rewires in occupied houses and got cables only where i could dream! With minimal disturbances to residents LOLS.

I’m reading this post back again and I can assure you that testing on the commercial/industrial side is not any more different as the domestic I won’t go into too much detail but sampling is a common theme with so many DB’s In com/ind industry so it’s a rotational testing theme. As for leaving no stone unturned do me a favour! ?‍ It’s a Lengthy and complex procedure it’s the same process with single phase in domestic

 

[ipf]

Regarding electricians in general, unless they have the experience and knowledge, it's each to their own. It baffles me how 'qualified' people, with little experience in one sphere, think they're 'god's gift' and throw themselves into things they have no idea about.

 

[littlespark]

There is an old adage that some people know that they know stuff..... some don't know that they know, and others know that they don't know...

However.... those that don't know they don't know are by far the worst.



You know?

 

[ipf]

There is an old adage that some people know that they know stuff..... some don't know that they know, and others know that they don't know...

However.... those that don't know they don't know are by far the worst.



You know?

Oh for a bit of knowledge, said the man......

 

[Petej999]

They do and it's not justified considering how technical the domestic work has got

I've seen the industrial electricians struggle with rcds a few times

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

 

[Petej999]

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

It maybe that during the building boom, many people picked up the point that if they ;earnt a little bit of electrical knowledge they could quite simply wire a new build house, hence the phrase "!house basher" no training or not much anyhow.
After all one new house is much the same as the next one. Be honest not much to it is there? "

Whats the answer then??? if you have slung the wiring in one new build no difference than the last one or the next, after all you can become a DI in a few weeks if you choose the right course

 

[Dave OCD]

I think it's fair to say that 30 or even 20 years ago wiring an average new build house was very straightforward, in my early 20s I could do a 1st fix, properly too in a good day. [Without any chasing].
But there's so much more in a current new build, probably 3-4 times as many sockets for a start, multiple lights where there would have been one in kitchens, utility rooms etc as well as things like heat pumps, electric underfloor heating and then data and alarm wiring etc etc. And the modern construction methods can be a pain where you have things like triple joists to get through plus crazy amounts of insulation everywhere and every other 'trade' seems to be on a mission to make life awkward for everyone else. So I still say that to do it right isn't as easy as many think.

 

[Grant1987]

Whats the answer then??? if you have slung the wiring in one new build no difference than the last one or the next, after all you can become a DI in a few weeks if you choose the right course

I think you clearly have a lack of respect for the domestic side of electrics I’m not going into too much detail now because the AJ fight is almost on but you need a reality check my friend

 

[ipf]

There is an old adage that some people know that they know stuff..... some don't know that they know, and others know that they don't know.

However.... those that don't know they don't know are by far the worst.

I'd go with that, in general.
However, those that know they don't know and still go ahead are the most foolish and devious.

 

[Petej999]

I think you clearly have a lack of respect for the domestic side of electrics I’m not going into too much detail now because the AJ fight is almost on but you need a reality check my friend

Not at all Mate, I had 4/5 years on housing projects looking after and putting right sub standard work by substandard Sparks mostly Apprentices in thier las couple of years, or chancers who thought they were Electricians because they could sling Twin and cpc about with gay abandon, believe me Mate, new labour coming in as the jobs progressed I saw it all during those years, I have every respect for those that do domestic, it's the chancers that give domestic Guys a bad rep, sometimes the truth hurts.
I had the chance to get out of the domestic side and it proved to be the right move. Oh by the way I had my reality check eary on in my long career, went back to college, because during my time of day release there where those that spoilt the learning curve for the many pooh pooing the Science side of things," what do I need this stuff for when all I do is work on a building site day in day out, I worked with some good Domestic guys as well, not many but some as I say.
When you work with some lads that couldn't do a basic insulation test it does make you wonder what the trade was/is coming to, to answer your point that I have a lack of respect for Domestic Sparks, that's far from the truth.

 

[Electrics]

I think it's fair to say that 30 or even 20 years ago wiring an average new build house was very straightforward, in my early 20s I could do a 1st fix, properly too in a good day. [Without any chasing].
But there's so much more in a current new build, probably 3-4 times as many sockets for a start, multiple lights where there would have been one in kitchens, utility rooms etc as well as things like heat pumps, electric underfloor heating and then data and alarm wiring etc etc. And the modern construction methods can be a pain where you have things like triple joists to get through plus crazy amounts of insulation everywhere and every other 'trade' seems to be on a mission to make life awkward for everyone else. So I still say that to do it right isn't as easy as many think.

Most of your work isn't going to be in new builds though.