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Brendan Richman
Hey guys I don't want to start arguments by opening up this thread!
While I completely agree with you Bugsy, it's not an ideal solution - and in an ideal world yes hiring an electrician would obviously be the best thing to do! However, like I said before, these are hard times, and I was being moaned at by the mrs in our new apartment!
I'm not promoting "dodgeandbodge.com", but I do think that although it is perfectly safe, and is a job that can be taken on by anyone in the same situation. From the outside, it simply looks like another socket. From the inside, it's simply an extension lead with a wall socket on. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion! Especially for the not-so-knowledgable on a tight budget!
While I completely agree with you Bugsy, it's not an ideal solution - and in an ideal world yes hiring an electrician would obviously be the best thing to do! However, like I said before, these are hard times, and I was being moaned at by the mrs in our new apartment!
I'm not promoting "dodgeandbodge.com", but I do think that although it is perfectly safe, and is a job that can be taken on by anyone in the same situation. From the outside, it simply looks like another socket. From the inside, it's simply an extension lead with a wall socket on. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion! Especially for the not-so-knowledgable on a tight budget!
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jason jones
as i understand it he's plugging into a socket not wiring into one. also i can't see anywhere on here where he's mentioned special locations,
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bugsy
Jason your right ( I assumed kitchen cupboard - may be wrong ) but implying this sort of installtion is ok is wrong ( sorry brendon but reg's are reg's ) and if we as proffessionals can approve of such installations and tell everybody else who cares to log on : yea sod it what your sparky say's is wrong electrics are all plug and play then don't complain about the lack of repect and renumeration for our proffession
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jason jones
while i agree that i, you and most other sparks would do it different i can't honestly think of 1 single reg he is going against.
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bugsy
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Spudnik
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Adam W
I suppose you could do that and it'd probably work, although I'm not saying you should do it - the question being "what is it?"; it's not part of the fixed wiring and it's not an appliance, just some hideous creation which is stuck in limbo somewhere in between.
If you're going to wire sockets with flex you should terminate the ends with bootlace ferrules in accordance with 526.8.1 which is about "avoiding separation of individual wires in multiwire, fine wire, or very fine wire conductors", not about daisy chaining sockets and plugging them in somewhere.
Obviously the ideal solution would be to get the existing socket moved or another one added in accordance with the appropriate regs, esp EAWR 1989 regulations 10 ("Where necessary to prevent danger, every joint and connection in a system shall be mechanically and electrically suitable for use")
and regulation 16 ("No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.")
A desire to save money is not generally considered a defence for contravening the EAWR (the law).
If you're going to wire sockets with flex you should terminate the ends with bootlace ferrules in accordance with 526.8.1 which is about "avoiding separation of individual wires in multiwire, fine wire, or very fine wire conductors", not about daisy chaining sockets and plugging them in somewhere.
Obviously the ideal solution would be to get the existing socket moved or another one added in accordance with the appropriate regs, esp EAWR 1989 regulations 10 ("Where necessary to prevent danger, every joint and connection in a system shall be mechanically and electrically suitable for use")
and regulation 16 ("No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.")
A desire to save money is not generally considered a defence for contravening the EAWR (the law).
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jason jones
non. but i can't see the down sides of it except its price. its more managable and easier to terminate than t&e. like i said i know of no reg that he's going against.
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bugsy
If it was an extention lead i would sit on the fence but he's wired it to a socket outlet - fixed installation
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Brendan Richman
I do not think in any way shape or form this is breaking the law! What a ridiculous accusation!
It's not fixed wiring - it's a plug legitimately plugged into an existing socket which is part of the ring mains. This plug then runs to nothing much than a switched wall socket that is used in place of an extension lead. I'll admit I'm the not most experienced person with electrics, however I do basics like wiring a plug, which in turns can easily lead to wiring a unit on the wall. The wires are not fixed in any way, just cable clipped to the wall so it doesn't dangle. The plug is still in the cupboard out of sight and mind, so there's absolutely no danger in doing this. Like I have also stated before, the cupboard is just off the living room, nowhere near any kitchen appliances or the like, and it is only powering small appliances such as phone chargers, and maybe a lamp.
As mentioned above, I'll admit it's not ideal - but in no way is it not safe, nor illegal! It can be easily removed (as simple as unplugging a plug!). Sorry guys - I didn't mean to cause such a fuss but can you please not worry about it anymore! It's cool...
It's not fixed wiring - it's a plug legitimately plugged into an existing socket which is part of the ring mains. This plug then runs to nothing much than a switched wall socket that is used in place of an extension lead. I'll admit I'm the not most experienced person with electrics, however I do basics like wiring a plug, which in turns can easily lead to wiring a unit on the wall. The wires are not fixed in any way, just cable clipped to the wall so it doesn't dangle. The plug is still in the cupboard out of sight and mind, so there's absolutely no danger in doing this. Like I have also stated before, the cupboard is just off the living room, nowhere near any kitchen appliances or the like, and it is only powering small appliances such as phone chargers, and maybe a lamp.
As mentioned above, I'll admit it's not ideal - but in no way is it not safe, nor illegal! It can be easily removed (as simple as unplugging a plug!). Sorry guys - I didn't mean to cause such a fuss but can you please not worry about it anymore! It's cool...
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Spudnik
Yes i see your point, although i was assuming the "extension" lead was plugged into a socket and then run into fixed socket outlets?
Again, assuming the load will be within 13A.
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jason jones
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Brendan Richman
That is correct - nothing is fixed so it can't be easily moved. I did not touch the original socket ie. take the faceplate off.
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Brendan Richman
Like I said above, nothing is fixed so it can't be easily moved. I did not touch the original socket ie. take the faceplate off.
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nikmet
Is the flex cable clipped securely, and is the double socket screwed to the wall, Is the extension lead still meeting its original design certification now it has been cut and altered? has the new installation been checked with any calibrated meters, (earth continuity for example?)
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Adam W
What a ridiculous bunch of contradictions:
And if you admit you're "not most experienced person with electrics" how does that make you appropriately experienced and competent to do the job?
How do you even know you're not "breaking the law" (which I didn't even suggest) if you don't even know what the law is?
And what qualifies you to make a judgment as to whether or not it's safe? Were you even going to test it? How were you going to test it? As a fixed socket or as an appliance?
So what's the socket and wiring fixed to if it's not "fixed wiring" as you claim? Is 'reference method C' no longer an installation method?
And if you admit you're "not most experienced person with electrics" how does that make you appropriately experienced and competent to do the job?
How do you even know you're not "breaking the law" (which I didn't even suggest) if you don't even know what the law is?
And what qualifies you to make a judgment as to whether or not it's safe? Were you even going to test it? How were you going to test it? As a fixed socket or as an appliance?
Like a consumer unit? Or is that the next step?
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Brendan Richman
I meant it is not fixed as in it doesn't go inside walls, or anything like that - if it all needs to be taken out for whatever reason, all that needs to be done is to unplug it from the socket...
I don't know what reference method C is...so mute point there...
I'm not saying it does make me experienced and competent to do the job at all. That being said, it's no more difficult than wiring a plug. It's a simple case of cut the cable, and terminating it in the back of a new wall socket...I'm pretty sure you don't need a masters degree to do that! Sorry if I'm stealing work from anyone by trying it myself first...
"A desire to save money is not generally considered a defence for contravening the EAWR (the law)." - ok maybe you didn't say it, but it seem like an excuse for an "I told you so" moment...just saying!
The one I have already done...yes I have tested it, thank you
I made sure the wires I terminated in the new socket were in the proper terminals, fixed properly and made sure they couldn't be pulled out. I also tested it with a mains tester (the little plug), and un-surprisingly, it worked fine (I say un-surprisingly because like I said - it's not exactly a hard job!).I meant I can easily wire a plug, and this is no more difficult...
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