Cause of massive night time usage?

[Dammo6]

HI Guys,

Hopefully someone here might be able to offer a plausible answer to my question because my electricity provider certainly can't.

I had a smart meter installed last March. Analysis of the data shows that we are using, on average, virtually the same number of units between 00:00 and 08:00 are we are between 16:00 and 24:00. The 8-hour period in between is roughly half.

The meter appears to be fine. I turn off the supply and checked the reading before and after a 40 minute period. It was exactly the same.

The company suggests that it is a faulty appliance but I've tried to explain that there is no appliance that is only on during the night that wouldn't also be on in the evening. So surely all the other appliances that would be on in the evening should see a significantly greater reading in total? I hope this is clear.

Can anyone offer an explanation? Is there something glaring obvious that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance

 

[James]

Sounds like a thermal storage electric boiler.
how is the house heated?

 

[littlespark]

Any storage heaters? Off peak immersion water heater?

They can take as much electricity overnight as a normal days usage, but at a lesser rate price

 

[DefyG]

Try turning off circuits individually to see when the usage falls.

 

[James]

A picture of the distribution boards and or boiler / radiator would be helpful

 

[Dammo6]

Thanks for all the replies. I thought I’d answered last night but I wasn’t sign in on the other device .
We have ofch and two solid fuel stoves heating the house. No storage heaters.
I’ve started checking individual circuits but no joy so far.

 

[baldelectrician]

You can have your own meter installed after their meter.
You can get a meter for around £50 and have a compotent electrician install it

 

[Dammo6]

Does this sound like a meter issue? Nobody I've spoken to has ever come across a similar situation. I'd get as much satisfaction from the company 'customer service' dept as I would if I asked them to cut my hair over the phone.

 

[baldelectrician]

Does this sound like a meter issue? Nobody I've spoken to has ever come across a similar situation. I'd get as much satisfaction from the company 'customer service' dept as I would if I asked them to cut my hair over the phone.

Getting this done will rule out or rule in their meter

 

[snowhead]

How does the overall total of units used compare from the old meter to the "Smart" Meter?

 

[Vortigern]

The only appliance is heating that might go up at night but as you say heating is not electric. Maybe radiator pump? What temperature is your thermostat set to at night? Pics please

 

[MJPD29]

It doesn't sound like a meter issue if it is the same thing every day at the same time, it's almost certainly something in your property

 

[James]

any pictures of the installation, or screenshots of the data that seems incorrect?

 

[brianmoooore]

There's another thread on here at the moment, concerning a faulty meter that's racking up units on it's own.

 

[Julie.]

It's just a matter of working through it logically.

Mainswitch off overnight - ensure meter reading doesn't increase.

Mainswitch on, but all circuits off overnight - ensure meter reading doesn't increase.

Mainswitch on, but all circuits other than one (say the cooker) off overnight - ensure meter reading doesn't increase.

Mainswitch on, but all circuits other than a different one (say the downstairs sockets) off overnight - ensure meter reading doesn't increase.

.... sleep - repeat....

Until you find one circuit which does increase significantly (most will have a small load such as unused chargers etc).

Once you find out which circuit has the load, repeat the same methodology on that circuit.

It's a long drawn out process, but if you post a list of the circuits you have, we could take a (un)educated guess.

Often unlabelled radial circuits, ring finals etc

 

[SJD]

What sort of a house is this? Detached, terraced, flat in block, etc?

I only ask because the night time use looks to be coming from something that only powers up with substantial usage overnight, and that tends to be off-peak stuff like storage heaters and off-peak immersions. And e.g. if an older terrace, it is not impossible someone has connected them to one of your circuits e.g. via a party wall.

 

[davesparks]

How many units are being used in each time period?

 

[DefyG]

I'd get as much satisfaction from the company 'customer service' dept as I would if I asked them to cut my hair over the phone.

We too would like to get some satisfaction knowing that the posts (replies) made to try and help the OP are acknowledged and answered.

 

[davesparks]

Analysis of the data shows that we are using, on average, virtually the same number of units between 00:00 and 08:00 are we are between 16:00 and 24:00. The 8-hour period in between is roughly half.

Can anyone offer an explanation? Is there something glaring obvious that I'm missing?

How many units are we actually talking about here?

What appliances are you using during those time periods?

If you're getting up and going to work or whatever before 8am then, depending on your routine, it's entirely possible that you may be using as much electricity between 0:00 and 08:00 as you are between 16:00 and 0:00

Personally my highest usage in a day is usually in the hour or so after I get up. I'll boil the kettle a couple of times, put the washing machine on and maybe the dishwasher before going out to work.

 

[freddo]

Personally my highest usage in a day is usually in the hour or so after I get up. I'll boil the kettle a couple of times, put the washing machine on and maybe the dishwasher before going out to work.

Bloody hell I wish I was that organised!

 

[DefyG]

How many units are we actually talking about here?

Figures really would help as what the OP perceives as a 'massive' amount might be perfectly normal?

 

[davesparks]

Figures really would help as what the OP perceives as a 'massive' amount might be perfectly normal?

That's exactly where I'm going with this, I can't imagine it being too unusual for the least amount of electricity to be used between 8am and 4pm, most people are out at work/school etc for most of that time.

 

[Dammo6]

Hi All,

Firstly, thank you for all the replies and apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

Here's a screenshot of usage from last March. I accept that the word 'massive' may be an overstatement. What I really mean is that I'm amazed that it's the same as 1600 to 2400. As you can see from above, it's pretty consistent throughout the night, rather than concentrated between, say, 0700 and 0800 when people are up for school/work.

The house is a dormer on it's own site.
For comparison, here's 0800 to 1600 for the same period.

And 1600 to 2400

 

[Julie.]

I assume the readings are kWhr, so 0.35 would be a 350watt item running through the night. (Or summation)

A couple of outside halogen lamps on through the night would give this, but I am afraid the only way if you can't find anything obvious, is to switch circuits - given hourly readings you could switch various circuits on through one night a couple of hours apart and find out which circuit is the issue.

One very disturbed night of sleep could get to the bottom of this.

 

[Dammo6]

Yeah, that looks like the best option alright.

 

[Dammo6]

Hope you all had a good Christmas and best wishes for the new year.

I said I’d update this as so many of you were good enough to offer advice. It was as all helpful, especially yours Julie.

After a painfully slow process, I’ve narrowed it down to the pump in the septic tank. Hopefully once I’ve had that replaced I’ll be back to normal usage.

Thanks again.

 

[James]

I am not sure if it needs replacing, sounds like fairly normal usage if you have a 24h agitation pump running.

 

[Dammo6]

Is 7kw/h overnight normal usage? I thought I read somewhere that 11kw/h per day was around what the average household uses. Maybe I’m way off.

 

[DefyG]

Would have thought that type of pump would have been on a float/high level switch rather than just through the night so must be on a time switch?
Loading might be normal for that type of pump?

 

[Dammo6]

Honestly have no idea what sort of pump is in it but all I know is that it appears to be costing me a small fortune.

 

[DefyG]

Honestly have no idea what sort of pump is in it but all I know is that it appears to be costing me a small fortune.

Well no, the pump will be sized for the application so either original design notes or check the pump (assuming it is the original pump).
There may not be an easy solution as it is obviously working (perhaps as it should, unless partial blockage?) and unfortunately all part of the sewage system you have.

 

[Dammo6]

Thanks for the input. Either way I’ll have to get someone to look at it for me.

 

[brianmoooore]

Two types of pump might for found in a sewage system. One is a fairly high powered (HP or so), sewage pump that pushes treated sewage out of the tank where the tank is situated in lower ground than the surrounding area. This type of pump should only run infrequently, and for a short time.
The other type of pump that might be found in a sewage system, mine included, is an air compressor, which is used to agitate and aid with the digestion of the sewage. In the majority of systems, this pump runs continuously (mine seems to run about half of the time, under the control of some expensive electronics). These typically are rated at 100W or less.

 

[Dammo6]

If I was to guess, and it would only be a guess, I have the former.

 

[brianmoooore]

I've had experience of sewage pumps in agricultural applications, and they are very prone to seizing. Possibly this has happened to yours, and any overload protection fitted is inadequate.
Have you looked inside the tank?

 

[Dammo6]

Thanks Brian, even to my ignorant ear, that sounds plausible.

 

[DefyG]

I think if it had seized it would have blown/tripped something or burnt out after all this time. (And you may have noticed by now if pump had stopped or there had been a blockage!!).
As Brian says in #33 the type of sewage system will determine the type and size of pump.
I would also think it the former type and not with a relatively low wattage air pump (although could have both) but usually run on demand (high level) and not just through the night?

 

[Dammo6]

Wish I could answer guys but I genuinely have no idea about this pump other than the process of elimination suggests that it’s the cause of the high overnight usage. Was away for Christmas for a few days and usage was high which suggests that it’s drawing electricity constantly.

 

[DefyG]

Constantly? I'm thinking faulty timer or float switch but if pump had run dry, usually burnt out pump motor !!!?
No, you need to get someone local to look at it, but keeps us updated, its good to know how these things turn out.

 

[Dammo6]

Will do and thanks again for all the input