NHS issues safety alert on socket covers requiring removal from NHS premises!

[FatallyFlawed]

The NHS has just published a safety alert about socket covers which requires them to be removed from all NHS premises!

It says: "This Alert is issued to highlight how, in certain circumstances, the use of plastic 13A (13 amp) electrical socket inserts (sold as safety accessories) can overcome the safety features designed into socket outlets.13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social care premises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence. Any socket inserts currently in use should be withdrawn from use and responsibly disposed of."

There is a full explanation here.

 

[martinh287]

Yeah we have been issued with this warning. We have these at various places thoughout the hospital. Our children's ward are asking for a alternative solution.

 

[UKMeterman]

Yeah we have been issued with this warning. We have these at various places thoughout the hospital. Our children's ward are asking for a alternative solution.

Hi,
I had a go at abusing some MK Logic plus sockets, have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUqaU5OlJ4E have a look from 4:00

 

[telectrix]

Yeah we have been issued with this warning. We have these at various places thoughout the hospital. Our children's ward are asking for a alternative solution.

the alternative is to leave the sockets alone as designed. ensure that RCD protection is in place.

 

[netblindpaul]

Yeah we have been issued with this warning. We have these at various places thoughout the hospital. Our children's ward are asking for a alternative solution.

There is no need for ANY alternative solution, the sockets are already inherently safe.

 

[NDG Elecs]

I could not read the full explanation as the page was not displaying (due to browser security at my end). I hope as well as sensibly advising the removal of these things they are getting someone to check each sockets shutter mechanism has not seized up.

Good work FF.

 

[Carl S]

Yeah we have been issued with this warning. We have these at various places thoughout the hospital. Our children's ward are asking for a alternative solution.

On my father’s instruction I am posting this:

https://www.cas.dh.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=102494

The full Department of Health directive and if you follow the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] link it will lead to the PDF where you will find it also applies to OFSTED regulated premises.

martinh287, as NetBlindPaul pointed out. You have no option other than comply with the directive.

 

[LED Lighting]

There is only one type of socket cover/protector which can make the sockets safer than they are already.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=socket+protector

Sorry it's amazon but these covers lock closed over the the socket stopping anything being plugged in or removed.
I have seen some which can be opened with a magnet or a key.
But as about and many other posts the UK sockets are the safest ever and don't require any intervention to make them safer

 

[Midwest]

Is this a wind up or something, no offence LED. I can only assume the reason to lock up a socket, is to stop people pinching your electricity!

 

[Midwest]

And for those looking for an alternative, you might want to read this thread posted some years ago now; http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...everyone-fatallyflawed-child-plug-socket.html

 

[stevethesparks]

Hi,
I had a go at abusing some MK Logic plus sockets, have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUqaU5OlJ4E have a look from 4:00

It would appear that many sparks here do not like the MK brand. For the reasons given, this is my selling point for using MK socket outlets, in my opinion they are second to none for safety in this regard. Worth the extra pennies.

 

[UNG]

It would appear that many sparks here do not like the MK brand. For the reasons given, this is my selling point for using MK socket outlets, in my opinion they are second to none for safety in this regard. Worth the extra pennies.

Back in I think the late 80's the NHS actually banned under a HTM the use of MK sockets in all NHS premises as the "new" shutter they used didn't need the earth pin and could be operated by any 2 pin plug, Crabtree then became the preferred brand while MK failed to tackle this known problem for many years, while they have now fixed the problem (not sure when) there are many more manufacturers in the marketplace to chose from now and having made such a poor modification with safety issues to their sockets back then MK has lost the trust they had with a lot of sparks who have moved on to other brands

 

[happysteve]

Is this a wind up or something, no offence LED. I can only assume the reason to lock up a socket, is to stop people pinching your electricity!

A good reason might be to stop a kid plugging an appliance that could be dangerous (to them) into a socket. The usual example is a portable fan heater: might get a burn, or covered over with a pile of clothes causing a fire.

It's generally easier to just do a mental risk assessment and just store stuff like that out of reach if it's potentially gonna be a problem.

 

[telectrix]

Is this a wind up or something, no offence LED. I can only assume the reason to lock up a socket, is to stop people pinching your electricity!

can also be used to stop anyone unplugging an appliance e.g. a computer.

 

[UNG]

Does this mean these horrible things are going to be removed from those Bounty boxes the NHS hand out to new mothers as well, it would be a bit hypocritical if they don't

 

[Spoon]

https://www.cas.dh.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=102494
The full Department of Health directive and if you follow the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] link it will lead to the PDF where you will find it also applies to OFSTED regulated premises.

Help please. I can't see where it says it applies to OFSTED regulated premises in the 2nd link PDF.

 

[netblindpaul]

Back in I think the late 80's the NHS actually banned under a HTM the use of MK sockets in all NHS premises as the "new" shutter they used didn't need the earth pin and could be operated by any 2 pin plug, Crabtree then became the preferred brand while MK failed to tackle this known problem for many years, while they have now fixed the problem (not sure when) there are many more manufacturers in the marketplace to chose from now and having made such a poor modification with safety issues to their sockets back then MK has lost the trust they had with a lot of sparks who have moved on to other brands

The thing with that is that the two live pins actuating mechanism is valid under BS1363 and always has been, however, the pins must be rectangular and, compliant with BS1363 themselves, thus it is impossible ti open them with a round pin "euro" plug.
This is one of the issues with "socket protectors" they don't have to be designed to the pin dimensions of BS1363.

 

[Marvo]

From what I can gather this directive is legally binding for all NHS premises in the UK (please correct me if I'm wrong) so I've pinned this thread for now to get it better attention.

 

[netblindpaul]

From what I can gather this directive is legally binding for all NHS premises in the UK (please correct me if I'm wrong) so I've pinned this thread for now to get it better attention.

You are correct Marvo, it is legally binding for all NHS premises throughout the whole of the NHS estate in the UK.
This will also have further ramifications.
Thank goodness.

 

[Marvo]

^^agreed, it's long overdue.

 

[kingeri]

Just need to get them out of schools now though!

 

[Spoon]

I have emailed OFSTED the NHS alert link yesterday and asked if they have a similar alert. When I get a reply I will post it.

 

[Andy78]

Afaik ofsted have had a neutral stance on these for a few years now. They did insist on their use at one point though.

 

[Spoon]

Afaik ofsted have had a neutral stance on these for a few years now. They did insist on their use at one point though.

Lets see what they say when they read the NHS alert. See if they still sit on the fence... I can't see how they can though.

 

[Spoon]

Just in case anyone else would like to email OFSTED and ask them, below is there email address.
'[email protected]'

I wonder what they would do if they got load of emails asking about the NHS alert and if it also applied to OFSTED a well...

 

[Flanders]

I've started noting it as information on EICRs. I see them in nurserys and schools all the time I also point the caretaker in the direction of you tube if they don't believe me that they are unsafe

 

[NDG Elecs]

I've started noting it as information on EICRs. I see them in nurserys and schools all the time I also point the caretaker in the direction of you tube if they don't believe me that they are unsafe

It's dead easy to give a quick physical demonstration.
My missus doubted me about these things. So I got a voltstick and driver out and showed her the issue. She couldn't believe how flimsy some of the covers are.

To FF. Are you campaigning about the narrowed extension sockets which allow a standard (earth pin of a) plug to be inserted upside down? If not you should do, as these are even easier to open the shutters than the socket protectors in my view.

 

[JohnnyRingmain]

Any update on this from Ofsted?

Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using Tapatalk

 

[Spoon]

Any update on this from Ofsted?

No mate. I have been told that they are not quick about replying to queries. I will bug them again tomorrow if I haven't had a response.

 

[UNG]

No mate. I have been told that they are not quick about replying to queries. I will bug them again tomorrow if I haven't had a response.

Ofsted were quick enough to have a go at my brother's nursery when a potential customer complained that they weren't using these horrible socket covers, so much for sitting on the fence it had to be pointed out to them that they do just that

 

[Spoon]

I have just emailed them again. We will see how it does. I will keep you all informed.

 

[FatallyFlawed]

Ofsted were quick enough to have a go at my brother's nursery when a potential customer complained that they weren't using these horrible socket covers, so much for sitting on the fence it had to be pointed out to them that they do just that

Yes, Ofsted do sit firmly on the fence, not surprising as there will be no one with professional electrical expertise within Ofsted (unlike the NHS). However, the person who had a go at your brother's nursery was ignoring Ofsted policy! Inspectors are NOT allowed to make comments regarding socket covers, I quote:

"Childcare safety issue — electrical socket covers

Some inspectors are continuing to make judgements about risks to children when inspecting childcare settings where the provider has decided not to use electrical socket covers on exposed sockets.

Our position on the use of electrical socket covers has not changed. We neither encourage nor discourage the responsible use of socket covers as part of a risk-assessed approach to electrical safety. In line with the relevant requirements for registration, it is up to each individual registered provider to demonstrate to us that the environment is safe for children and meets legal requirements. It is for the provider to decide, as part of the risk assessment they carry out at their premises, how best to protect children from any dangers associated with electric sockets and appliances.

Inspectors should not set actions or make recommendations in relation to the use of socket covers and should not refer specifically to these in their reports. If a provider is unsure whether or not to use socket covers and asks our advice, we should refer them to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (ROSPA) and Child Accident Protection Trust websites for information to help them make a decision about the use of socket covers and the type of sockets considered as 'safe'."


For the original, please see page 11 of this Ofsted document.

Of course, this does not alter the fact that it is time Ofsted woke up and realised that sitting on the fence is just plain stupid, if they are interested in child welfare then they need to make it clear, just as the NHS has done, that socket covers are completely unacceptable!

 

[Spoon]

Inspectors should not set actions or make recommendations in relation to the use of socket covers and should not refer specifically to these in their reports. If a provider is unsure whether or not to use socket covers and asks our advice, we should refer them to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (ROSPA) and Child Accident Protection Trust websites for information to help them make a decision about the use of socket covers and the type of sockets considered as 'safe'."

Thanks for that.

I have just emailed ROSPA. Told them about the NHS alert and asked what is their policy on the "socket safety covers"

 

[Spoon]

Just got this back from OFSTED.

Thank you for youre-mail.
This isconfirmation your email has been received and will be passed to the appropriateteam.
However should yourequire any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.


4 days to say that they have received my email. I wonder how long it will take to tell me what their policy is???

 

[JohnnyRingmain]

Maybe they sit on the fence when it comes to correspondence also.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using Tapatalk

 

[Spoon]

Still waiting for info from OFSTED & ROSPA but I did find this quote on a ROSPA site.

Protective Socket Covers for 13-amp Power Outlets RoSPA recommends that all electrical equipment is stored safely away when not in use and children are supervised and warned to keep away from plug socket outlets until they are capable of understanding the risks and are able to use them safely.
13-amp power sockets made to BS 1363 incorporate a shutter mechanism, which prevents inappropriate access to the live connectors. RoSPA therefore does not consider it necessary to recommend the use of socket covers.

Electricity - RoSPA

 

[Flanders]

I guess most have seen this just thought I would post link for info again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WhFgaqCX0

 

[wtc]

Non-electrician here, just someone who enjoys reading this forum, but also a parent. My wife bought and fitted these socket covers some time ago for when our now 2 1/2 year old was crawling. I was talking to her only a few days ago about removing them after reading this thread.

Anyway, I pulled one out today to plug something in and it snapped, leaving the 'earth pin' in place and the shutters open.

(Pic taken later, I removed the broken pin straight away with pliers).

These things are now all going in the bin.

However, these things may have value outside the UK where using the three pin plug. We visit Malaysia frequently and while some sockets seem to be BS1363 with shutters, some newer ones don't seem to have them. Things sold in the shops there have a mixture of UK and two pin European plugs. It's common practice there to force the Euro plug into the three pin socket, so the shutters are probably seen as a nuisance.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

There is an evil device I believe used in Malaysia and possibly elsewhere, that looks like a socket cover but has holes where the live and neutral pins would be. It is inserted into the socket to open the shutters, allowing the pins of a europlug to be inserted. With 32A ring circuits not only would it defeat the shutters but also the fuse protection required for the appliance flex, so is doubly dangerous to insert a europlug into a UK outlet by whatever means.

There is an ever-increasing use of socket arrangements, often on adaptors, that are intended to accept many different kinds of plug. They are generally unshuttered, have poorly protected live parts and make poor contact. They are finding their way into the UK through grey-import accessories that do not meet regulations. Most will allow one pin of a plug to be inserted while the others remain exposed. They are now so prevalent that I have to admit to having had to use a few on occasions!

 

[Spoon]

So I got a reply from Ofsted:

Thank you for your email of 04 July 2016 and 07 July 2016. Ihave been asked to respond.

You ask in your email what Ofsted’s policy is on the use ofelectric socket safety covers, and whether we have put out information to alertproviders we regulate of its dangers.

Our position is clear on this matter. We neither recommend norcriticise the use of socket covers by childcare providers. It is theresponsibility of the provider to ensure that premises, environment andequipment are safe and suitable for their purpose. We do not prescribe the wayin which safety measures are to be put in place. There are no specificrequirements in legislation or the early years statutory framework that socketcovers must be placed in electrical sockets.

It is for the provider to decide as part of the risk assessmentthey carry out at their premises how best to protect children from dangersassociated with electric sockets and appliances. Providers may wish to consultthe Royal Society for the Prevention ofAccidents (ROSPA) and Child Accident Protection Trust websites forinformation to help them make a decision about the use of socket covers.

I hope this clarifies our position on the matter.

 

[telectrix]

they must all have sore arses, sitting on the fence so long.

 

[Midwest]

What I find confusing, is all these littles kids turning up in school or wherever, to be confronted with these strange devices called socket outlets. It must come as a complete shock for them (excuse the pun), having never seen them before in their lives. Still probably an education for them, as they now know how their TV's and PlayStations come to life.

 

[Flanders]

So I got a reply from Ofsted:

Thank you for your email of 04 July 2016 and 07 July 2016. Ihave been asked to respond.

You ask in your email what Ofsted’s policy is on the use ofelectric socket safety covers, and whether we have put out information to alertproviders we regulate of its dangers.

Our position is clear on this matter. We neither recommend norcriticise the use of socket covers by childcare providers. It is theresponsibility of the provider to ensure that premises, environment andequipment are safe and suitable for their purpose. We do not prescribe the wayin which safety measures are to be put in place. There are no specificrequirements in legislation or the early years statutory framework that socketcovers must be placed in electrical sockets.

It is for the provider to decide as part of the risk assessmentthey carry out at their premises how best to protect children from dangersassociated with electric sockets and appliances. Providers may wish to consultthe Royal Society for the Prevention ofAccidents (ROSPA) and Child Accident Protection Trust websites forinformation to help them make a decision about the use of socket covers.

I hope this clarifies our position on the matter.

That good and cleared that up then :mad2:

 

[Spoon]

I am still waiting for a reply from ROSPA. Lets see what they say..

 

[FatallyFlawed]

I am still waiting for a reply from ROSPA. Lets see what they say..

I too am still waiting for a reply from the Ofsted contact I have used in the past. Did you point out that NHS has identified the dangers, RoSPA and Child Accident Protection Trust have not?

 

[Spoon]

Did you point out that NHS has identified the dangers, RoSPA and Child Accident Protection Trust have not?

Yes I put:

I see that the NHS has finally got round to alerting peopleto the dangers of these so called “socket safety covers”. (NHS CentralAlerting System, 30[SUP]th[/SUP] June 2016, Originator: DH Estates andFacilities)

 

[Spoon]

Just got a reply from ROSPA:

Thank you for your email.

RoSPA’s policy relating to“socket Safety covers” can be found on the following link http://www.rospa.com/home-safety/resources/policy-statements/electricity/

Protective SocketCovers for 13-amp Power Outlets
RoSPA recommendsthat all electrical equipment is stored safely away when not in use andchildren are supervised and warned to keep away from plug socket outlets untilthey are capable of understanding the risks and are able to use them safely.
13-amp powersockets made to BS 1363 incorporate a shutter mechanism, which preventsinappropriate access to the live connectors. RoSPA therefore does not considerit necessary to recommend the use of socket covers.

I have also provided the link tothe appropriate page on the Electrical Safety First webpage for yourinformation which you will find has a very similar policy.
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/news-and-campaigns/press-releases/2009/06/socket-covers/

 

[telectrix]

so why are ofsted burying their heads in the sand? are they afraid of offending the poorly paid chinese/koreans/etc. who produce this garbage?

edit: by garbage i refer to the socket covers.

 

[Spoon]

I have replied to ROSPA:

Inthe light of the NHS findings regarding the dangers of these “safety covers” doyou not think it is necessary to ban the use of these covers or do you disagreewith the NHS alert?
Isn’tthe wording on your site “does not consider it necessary to recommend the useof socket covers” sound indifferent to the NHS alert and the dangers of thesecovers?
The Electrical SafetyFirst post is dated 2009. I would hope that they have seen the NHS alertand will be updating their site information.



I need to get back to OFSTED to see why they also are indifferent to the NHS alert.

 

[Spoon]

UPDATE:

Below is an email I sent to OFSTED.


Many thanks for the reply. I have contacted RoSPA and below is their policy.


Protective SocketCovers for 13-amp Power Outlets


RoSPA recommendsthat all electrical equipment is stored safely away when not in use and childrenare supervised and warned to keep away from plug socket outlets until they arecapable of understanding the risks and are able to use them safely.


13-amp powersockets made to BS 1363 incorporate a shutter mechanism, which preventsinappropriate access to the live connectors. RoSPA therefore does not considerit necessary to recommend the use of socket covers.


I have to say that I am shockedby the Ofsted policy though. RoSPA don’t go as far as the NHS alert toremove any ‘safety covers’ but at least they are not indifferent to the dangersof them, which is what your policy seems to imply.
Does the NHS report on thedangers of these “socket safety covers” not concern you?

Do Ofsted not see the dangers ofbypassing the safety of the socket with something that has no safety standards?

The NHS has statedthat “13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social carepremises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence. Any socket insertscurrently in use should be withdrawn from use and responsibly disposed of.” Doyou not think the same should be done at schools and nurseries?

Below is their reply.


Thank you for emailing back following my response to yourprevious email of 04 July 2016.

I have nothing further to add to my previous response to you.The statutory framework that underpins our regulatory duty is owned by theDepartment for Education (DfE). You may contact them if you wish to questionwhy the law does not forbid the use of electrical safety socket covers inchildcare settings.



That pretty much sums it up......