Advice on V Phase Voltage Optimisation Units

[malcolmsanford]

I notice that "Jenny" came on here and asked a one off question with a link to the V-phase, the rep came on later with a rebuke to negative comments
Is it just me or was the thread an attempt to use the forum for publicity

Given there has been no response from the original poster

Ohhhhhhhhhh harsh Des very harsh ...................................but most likely true, think though it may have backed fired a little

 

[UNG]

Ohhhhhhhhhh harsh Des very harsh ...................................but most likely true, think though it may have backed fired a little

Got to agree the balls in their court now to try and convince us otherwise

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well don't think they could do that to be honest yours, Des and big n daft posts sort of like shot them down in flames.

 

[Rockingit]

I looked at these units from a commercial perspective some time ago, then just decided I couldn't honestly justify recommending them to customers.

As for why the utilities aren't pushing them, though - that's an easy one. Why would they want you to buy less of their product?

 

[UNG]

As for why the utilities aren't pushing them, though - that's an easy one. Why would they want you to buy less of their product?

They put enough money into cheap insulation at that big shed to cut bills down and smart meters to see how much you are using so you cut down and some were involved in the vphase trials.

 

[Knobhead]

If it was an advertising ploy it was good subliminal advertising. Up until our sceptics got a hold on it.
There’s only one way to save power in reality

View attachment 8946

 

[vphase]

Unfortunately, there are always going to be sceptics about our product and seemingly despite the growing body of evidence, people that refuse to accept that a proven technology can make savings when used for its intended purpose. We are not trying to hijack the board for publicity purposes, but will defend our product where possible and resources permit.

To specifically answer the technical question asked about voltage drop: voltage drop is quoted in BS7671, page 358. The VPhase output voltage is 220volts. Working on the percentages allowed, the absolute maximum voltage drop would be for other use circuits at 5%. Therefore the minimum voltage would be 209volts. As the CENELEC guide issues a range of 230volts +/- 10% the range of voltage is 207volts to 253volts. Therefore at worst case percentage volt drop the range falls within the CENELEC range of applied voltages.

If there are any circuits that there are concerns over a non-compliance with voltage drop exceeding existing wiring then as the installation electrician on site they would assess the requirements and if not suitable, simply leave the circuit supplied on the non-optimised side of a consumer unit.

In terms of where VPhase voltage optimisation fits in with other energy saving technologies, information widely available elsewhere (but collated on the VPhase web site HERE), illustrates that after home insulation, voltage optimisation is the next most effective thing that can be done in the home in terms of "£ saved per £ spent". Smart meters are being rolled out nationally by all of the utilities as per the Government's plans, but these require a change in consumer lifestyle and behaviour. VPhase voltage optimisation devices reduce energy consumption without requiring any further interaction from the consumer.

 

[Deleted member 19807]

The savings claims have been independently assessed and demonstrated typical energy savings of up to 12%.

Its this sort of claim that puts me off,

Who assesed it? and what was their brief for the assesment?

"typical energy saving of up to 12%" so what dose that mean? how many properties were in this test group what type of properties were they what was the test period and time of year and what was the average saving?

 

[vphase]

Please refer to one of our announcements regarding the trials which was published as a Regulatory News Announcement on the London Stock Exchange (HERE), which gives more information about the trial properties that were used. The trials have resulted in a range of savings (between 6% and 12%, ie up to 12%) depending on individual properties, energy use in those properties and the testing methodology used. This isn't marketing promotion speak either - these are facts.

There is also additional information on the VPhase web site about other trials that have been undertaken, including the Great Places Housing Group trial. This trial resulted in average electrical savings of 8.7% - and now the VPhase device is being specified in rewires and new builds at Great Places. The results of the trial were independently assessed by EA Technology.

 

[Engineer54]

So, what is the pay-back period of the overall cost of having one of your VPhase units installed in an average 3 bedroom home??

Yes i am one of those sceptics you talk about, and to my mind, with very good reason. Most of the appliances where any real savings can be made are ''excluded'' because your unit will simply go into by-pass. The likes of any resistive load or heating element will incur no savings but will take that much longer to fulfill it's designed purpose. A good example of that would be a typical kettle!!!

Who says that your unit is the next most effective means of energy saving after home insulation, ....YOU?? Prove it, publish traceable documented figures!! I wouldn't mind betting that those smart meters that are being rolled out, saves a dammed sight more energy than your undersized unit, whether it takes making a lifestyle change or not, besides i thought that was the idea, to encourage consumer lifestyle changes in energy consumption!!!

In essence, homeowners etc, would save more money with a far faster return on there investment if they were to change every lamp in the home with LED lamps.
Your unit is basically undersized to produce the savings that would make it's purchase a worthwhile proposition.

This is not just me thinking along these lines, but just about every professional forum i know, when one of your vphase units come up for discussion. Are you saying that all of those professionals are mistaken??

 

[vphase]

When looking at the "£ saved per £ spent" from energy efficiency technologies, the calculations consider the cost of installation and the typical savings achievable. Figures for VPhase have been taken from the independently verified trials with an average 10% saving and an installed cost of £300. Other technology costs and savings were taken from the Energy Saving Trust and YouGen web sites. Based on these calculations, it is only insulation that performs better than domestic voltage optimisation in terms of £ saved per £ spent.

Although it requires a good deal of assumptions, a typical 3 bedroom property with a typical energy bill of around £600 should expect to have payback within 5 years.

The idea of consumers being proactive in reducing their energy consumption is what the concept of smart meters is based upon. However, the reality is that people can and do become complacent. Look at arguments like the Jevons Paradox (HERE) and you must concede that even with the best will in the world consumers will not remain vigilant all of the time. The VPhase device does not need human intervention. It is a fit and forget solution that lowers energy consumption without requiring that change in lifestyle.

As indicated in an earlier post, a DECC report (HERE) from July 2010 outlined how over 67% of a property's domestic energy consumption is related to lighting and appliances. This excludes heating appliances. The whole-house savings of up to 12% that VPhase quote take in to account the circuits that are not optimised.

We're also not saying that VPhase is an exclusive technology. It should be used alongside other technology options, such as the LED (or even CFL) lighting that you suggest. VPhase is another tool that should be available to consumers. It is proven to work and is a lot more cost effective and lower cost than other technologies on the market.

 

[Engineer54]

Sorry, but as you say, far too many assumptions, and over optimistic savings and pay back periods!!

I also think that homeowners are getting to be very switched on when it comes to energy saving = saving money. They may relax at Xmas and other celebrations, but the overall trend in these economic times is towards helping yourself to save on energy costs...

There are i would imagine, few homeowners that could in the present times be able to afford both the vphase unit AND re-lamp every light fitting in the home with LED lamps. I would still say the later is a far better investment than the purchase and installation of one of your vphase units... Oh and remember, REAL savings only start to kick in, when the initial cost has been paid for, you don't start making savings straight away, not in the Real world anyway, but maybe in the world of creative accounting ...lol!!!

 

[vphase]

Sorry, the DECC report link should have been this one HERE

 

[UNG]

Still not seeing a convincing argument here from vphase as I said in an earlier post unless there have been amendments to Ohms law and the power equation then I don't see how savings are made and certainly at the levels claimed on the website

Just noticed the location of Vphase and EA Technology and what EA Technolgy does

Did a google search on "voltage optimisation units" and vphase come in 10th place so there appears to alot of others pushing this lower voltage technology with savings claims

Find it interesting that they push the low and zero carbon emissions, yet most companies don't tell us what the production carbon footprint of the unit is

 

[topquark]

Do you have any technical literature that explains exactly how this works please (not marketing literature)? I'm always interested in reducing my energy costs.

 

[Guest123]

My views remain the same, I'm out!

 

[UNG]

Do you have any technical literature that explains exactly how this works please (not marketing literature)? I'm always interested in reducing my energy costs.

Their website is supposed to have all the info you need. Like you I'm always open to ideas to reduce energy costs but this just doesn't stack up for me

 

[Engineer54]

Their website is supposed to have all the info you need. Like you I'm always open to ideas to reduce energy costs but this just doesn't stack up for me

It doesn't, in fact a lot of the more relevant stuff has been dropped from their website. It was a little too revealing to the more technically minded reader!! .... lol!! They seem to be concentrating on obscure carbon savings these days. The only people interested in that are the anoraks of this world! ...lol!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I notice that "Jenny" came on here and asked a one off question with a link to the V-phase, the rep came on later with a rebuke to negative comments
Is it just me or was the thread an attempt to use the forum for publicity

Given there has been no response from the original poster

You must be a cynical old bu**er Des ................... just like me !!! :love:

 

[Knobhead]

As a member of an international board I’ve seen many such units. The latest craze in India is domestic power factor correction units. They have no value at all other than lining the pockets of unscrupulous traders. I’m not saying V-Power is unscrupulous but I personally think what you’re selling is snake oil.

1 kilowatt of electricity is 1 kilowatt no matter how we derive it.

If we really look at things we have to take a transformers inherent (thermal, iron and copper) losses in to account. So to save “power” we have to waste power. Out of interest where were the power usage readings taken from? Before or after the unit?

The major power use in a house is heating for whatever reason, next comes lighting. Computers, televisions, phone chargers and all the other plethora of modern life are insignificant compared to the bulk of the loading. What happens when the bulk load comes on? The V-Power unit goes in to by-pass mode negating any saving.

To put your unit in to real practical use we no longer need a two way split consumer unit but a four way split unit. Each floor would need two FRC’s one on the V-Phase supply, the other for “normal” loads.

I have seen slight savings on electricity by voltage regulation in industrial situations, but most households don’t have 4 X 20MVA transformers in the back yard! As I said only slight savings, if a machine needs 50KW to turn it, it will take 50KW regardless of the voltage. Motor and lamp failures went up so it was a very short lived saving.