Earth doubling up as neutral conductor

[richardg]

Good morning all, I was called out to diagnose a fault with some 2d robus light fittings. After some research it turned out the installers had programmed the PIR with the wrong time sequence (5mins) the tube and ballast were both being damaged as min run time should be 15mins.
What stumped me is why they have used the CPC as the neutral conductor, this contradicts all I have been taught. Is this common or acceptable practise? Were the Orginal installers cutting corners by using cables with less cores. The fittings are all plastic with no exposed conductive parts.
Thanks for all your imput

 

[telectrix]

using cpc as a live conductor is not acceptable. full stop.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I do come across this sometimes. Shocking practice. Looks like a real neutral was too hard to route to the lights.
Should be disconnected.

 

[Brightspark2]

You mean they have used a green and yellow wire as neutral?...

Or is it doubling up as both the neutral and CPC?...

 

[Brightspark2]

Just re read the title you mean its doubling up so this definitely isnt acceptable...

 

[Silly Sausage]

No, No, No!

543.4.1

 

[monkeyelectric]

I had this the other day in an underfloor heating thermostat and the crazy thing is there was a blue core within the cable that they had just cut off at each end! tested out all ok so i put it as it should have been, i don't know what goes through peoples heads sometimes!

 

[richardg]

Photographic evidence will inform the building management company. He can take it up with the installing company.

 

[telectrix]

that's aclass I fitting!!!!! with no earth.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Perhaps he thought, well its screwed to the building and the building is resting on the earth so I don't need this poxy little wire aswell!

 

[Brightspark2]

Oh dear oh dear, that is a cowboy job...

Definitely not safe...cpc as neutral and as tel says a class 1 fitting with no earth...

 

[derek preece]

The fitting should be disconnected from the circuit in my opinion as it is not safe for use.

 

[Guest111]

maybe the pratt who wired it was thinking of making his own TNCS system lol

 

[richardg]

All the flats hallways and landings connected to the circuit. 5 floor nightmare!

 

[somersetsparks]

I don't understand why there is only 2 cores in the fitting

 

[onions1066]

Good luck with that one, I'm pretty sure he won't of learnt how to do it by the next fitting so you could be opening up a can of worms here. Metal gear try required the earth richardg, fitting may be plastic so Jo public are safe to touch just me you and any other unlucky spark who touches the gear tray who gonna get it .

 

[Sintra]

View attachment 17260
View attachment 17261
Photographic evidence will inform the building management company. He can take it up with the installing company.

What gets me is why the hell you left that circuit connected and energised. I would have had that locked off and issued an electrical danger notification.

 

[somersetsparks]

What gets me is why the hell you left that circuit connected and energised. I would have had that locked off and issued an electrical danger notification.

Is it really his place to do that? certainly not under my companys rules for I&T. We would issue urgent defect report to the customer (over phone if necessary) and leave as is. Imagine if tennant fell down stairs because no lights were on, you could be liable if you 'locked them off'
Its one thing locking off a machine in a factory, but I think you would have to be careful with communal areas in blocks of flats.
IMO installation poses no imminent danger to public.

 

[onions1066]

Is it really his place to do that? certainly not under my companys rules for I&T. We would issue urgent defect report to the customer (over phone if necessary) and leave as is. Imagine if tennant fell down stairs because no lights were on, you could be liable if you 'locked them off'
Its one thing locking off a machine in a factory, but I think you would have to be careful with communal areas in blocks of flats.
IMO installation poses no imminent danger to public.

It's a tough one but you are leaving yourself wide open leaving communal staircases with no lighting. Tricky one to be honest

 

[richardg]

Thank you for all your opinions, as stated in the last post I have informed the management company over the phone and will backup with an email to cover. Turns out the last electrician 'Just' got it working stating there were some issues with the buildings electrics. A slight understatement! The older residents need the lighting on to access lifts & stairs so locking off a circuit would cause more danger.
I will leave the proverbial ball in their court and see if they opt for a rewire.
Happy testing

 

[sparkwood]

i belive that some sparkies are like goldfish............they go around the bowl ooohh theres a castle....ooohh theres a castle ooohhhh theres a castle.lol

 

[sparkwood]

communial stairs will have other issues like emergency lighting, discharge these for more than 3 hours and you will be fitting new batts at least. id issue a notice, email to cover your own back. You could put in the email that if this isnt sorted within a certain timescale you will lock off. common sense is a blessing sometimes dont you think.

 

[Engineer54]

Though a complete NO, NO, the previous electrician hasn't doubled up the earth and the neutral, he's just done away with the neutral conductor and used the CPC conductors as the neutral from what i can see!! Has he conected these to the neutral bar in the DB by any chance??. Probably because there was a break of fault in the neutral conductor, that he either couldn't find or couldn't be bothered to find!! ...The later probably!! lol!!