FIT rates after May announced

[SolarRoofSols]

Just gone live - up to 50kW they are staying the same, with a small decrease over 50kW.

https://www.electriciansforums.net/...able-201-20may-202013-20pv-20only-pdf.120348/

 

[Ian-LS]

Just gone live - up to 50kW they are staying the same, with a small decrease over 50kW.

https://www.electriciansforums.net/...able-201-20may-202013-20pv-20only-pdf.120349/

anyone spot the date mistake in the table? should be August 1st 2013 should it not?

 

[SolarCity]

Well spotted.

 

[TedM]

Yes, it should be rates for the 3 months of May, June and July.

 

[SolarCity]

I do hope it's a mistake and not simply an 'idea'.

 

[Gavin A]

oh arse.

I'd been assuming that quarterly FIT cuts actually meant quarterly FIT cuts, but it appears in the world of DECC it actually means quarterly for a bit, then we'll do a 2 month quarter in the summer of 2013 just to confuse everyone.

I thought that was a mistake, but have just checked the legislation, which states this

[TABLE="class: LegTable, width: 747"]
[TR]
[TH="class: LegTH, bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: left"]Publication date[/TH]
[TH="class: LegTH, bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: left"]Solar tariff period[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: LegTDplain, bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: left"]1st March 2013[/TD]
[TD="class: LegTDplain, bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: left"]1st May 2013 to 30th June 2013[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

so we do only have until 30th June, not 1st August, which once again means I've been telling my staff to take holidays in the wrong month.

The Feed-in Tariffs Order 2012

when did they sneak this change in then?

 

[Gavin A]

I'd just changed our accounting period to August as well because of this, now I'm stuck with an accounting period that will make zero sense.

eta but that's a minor quibble compared to the loss of a full month that we expected to be extremely busy in during the height of summer.

 

[Ian-LS]

I'd just changed our accounting period to August as well because of this, now I'm stuck with an accounting period that will make zero sense.

eta but that's a minor quibble compared to the loss of a full month that we expected to be extremely busy in during the height of summer.

If Ted wasn't aware of this I bet nobody in the industry was aware of this?

 

[TedM]

I wasn't aware. It never made much sense for the tariff quarters not to align with the 1st April - 31st March FiT year, so they have obviously taken the opportunity of the last set of legislation changes to squeeze this one in.

I guess they will have to take just two months install figures (Feb and March) to set the tariff from 1st May but will they also pro-rate the quarter targets at 2/3? Probably makes no odds as we are set for a forced tariff degression in any case. Cocks-up my tariff calendar as well which I'll have to re-draw.

Annoying as I was at DECC for a meeting yesterday and could have asked them about it.

 

[SolarCity]

So we'd need to quote, win the job, and install. In 8 weeks. Doesn't seem particularly reasonable.

Particularly as it takes DECC 12 months to scratch its own arse.

 

[Gavin A]

So we'd need to quote, win the job, and install. In 8 weeks. Doesn't seem particularly reasonable.

Particularly as it takes DECC 12 months to scratch its own arse.

well tbf, only for anything above 50kWp, for the rest we have 4 months from now to the next cut... we actually would have had 5 months if they'd not taken a month to officially announce it which is ridiculous when they're producing weekly figures that no longer need to be adjusted (as they had to be when they were originally given a month to release these figures).

still, if anyone can get from quote through to installation on an above 50kWp system inside 2 months, then they obviously aren't working in the northern powergrid area.

 

[SolarRoofSols]

still, if anyone can get from quote through to installation on an above 50kWp system inside 2 months, then they obviously aren't working in the northern powergrid area.

If i remember rightly you can apply for the FIT before the installation goes ahead if it is over 50kW, i think you still need DNO approval though. Am I right in thinking this?

 

[Gavin A]

Good point, I think you are, though I don't know the process. WIll investigate as we have a potential customer this applies to.

 

[SibertSolar]

Yes, I believe you can "lock-in" the FiT rate prior to installation if over 50kW but I'm not sure what the time window constraints are.

 

[TedM]

DNC has to be over 50kW and you apply direct to OFGEM for pre-accreditation via the ROO-FIT website (you need to register). You need to have planning permission and a DNO connection agreement in place first and supply these to OFGEM. For PV you get the FiT rate 'locked' for 6 months.

 

[finchy]

Proves the poor installation rates...Greg must be happy !

 

[Gavin A]

DNC has to be over 50kW and you apply direct to OFGEM for pre-accreditation via the ROO-FIT website (you need to register). You need to have planning permission and a DNO connection agreement in place first and supply these to OFGEM. For PV you get the FiT rate 'locked' for 6 months.

I just saw this on their guidance.

Basically this means it's of very little use to us as it does nothing to aid the situation caused by DNO's like Northern PowerGrid taking pretty much the full 65 working days to turn around these applications - although I believe they promised to be better, we're still waiting on an application submitted in early December.

It also means that the Ofgem members who stated they thought this route should resolve a lot of those problems when this came up during the discussions around the G83/2 close geographic region either didn't understand the problem, didn't understand how the pre accreditation process was going to work, or something else. Bit annoying as I'd thought this was now partially resolved, turns out it's not been at all.

 

[SolarRoofSols]

DNC has to be over 50kW and you apply direct to OFGEM for pre-accreditation via the ROO-FIT website (you need to register). You need to have planning permission and a DNO connection agreement in place first and supply these to OFGEM. For PV you get the FiT rate 'locked' for 6 months.

To be honest i have not looked at this in depth, but my interest has been piqued! Any idea on how long the process takes and do you still need planning, even if an installation would typically come under PD?

 

[SolarRoofSols]

To be honest i have not looked at this in depth, but my interest has been piqued! Any idea on how long the process takes and do you still need planning, even if an installation would typically come under PD?

scrap that question - i am now reading the document!

 

[TedM]

For preliminary accreditation PD would only apply in the case of a community group or school with a sub-50kW system. Domestic and other commercial systems under 50kW are not covered by the preliminary accreditation process. In this case you would have to provide enough evidence to convince OFGEM that it is covered by PD. The manner in which you might do this is left open so OFGEM can effectively apply any rules they like.

For systems over 50kW then planning permission is always required.

This is how the rules for preliminary accreditation and pre-registration (two separate things) apply:

 

[SolarRoofSols]

For systems over 50kW then planning permission is always required.

Thanks Ted. I am looking in the Draft Guidance (12/12) and it seem s to suggest that you can get a 'Lawful Development Certificate' where installations don't require full planning permission. So if we were to install 100kW, keeping in the rules of permitted development then I understand that the development cert will cover it. Section 3.11. Is this what you mean by it always being required?

 

[TedM]

Permitted development, both domestic and non-domestic, only specifically applies to 'microgeneration' which is defined as up to 50kW. Anything over that would need full planning permission.

A lawful development certificate is really just for grey areas to confirm that you haven't breached any PD rules. If you put up 100kW without full planning then you might find the LPA enforcement team asking you to remove it or even taking it down themselves.

 

[SolarRoofSols]

I may be getting confused then.

Section 3 is for Preliminary Accreditation for ROO FIT which only I thought applies to installs over 50kW, so by default they would accept PD and the lawful development certificate wouldn't they, as it is stated under this section?

I know that the lawful development cert is applied for via the planning portal and is authorised by the LPA, as I have just been told by our local officer, so could they enforce a removal if the installation was carried out in line with the application specs?

 

[TedM]

What OFGEM have said at 3.11 isn't wrong as such - but it doesn't apply to PV systems over 50kW. The key word is "Where".

You cannot install a PV system over 50kW and have it comply with permitted development rules as it would be outside the scope. But there may well be some LPAs who don't actually realise this.