One ring main covering a brand new 3 bed house

[dickiegeorge]

Today my sister moved into a brand new 3 bed property. I looked at the distribution board and found that it had one ring main serving the kitchen, GF and 1st floor protected by a 32 amp mcb and a 80A 30mA RCD. I know that you can theoretically have unlimited sockets on a circuit but is this acceptable design? Does it conform with regs? It serves 25 points in the house

 

[MDJ]

Appalling, I always have 4 rings, up, down, kitchen general use, and kitchen appliances, but thats me, over the top maybe.

 

[dan86]

Appalling, I always have 4 rings, up, down, kitchen general use, and kitchen appliances, but thats me, over the top maybe.

+1....

 

[Paul.M]

No it doesn't meet current regs, no segregation of circuits. Needs to be at least one up and one down. Any good spark would do that plus put the kitchen on its own.

 

[Johnuk]

yes poor design by that spark

 

[Octopus]

Bad, bad, bad. Are you saying there is one up front RCD protecting ALL the circuits?

 

[monkeyelectric]

Thats shameful, should b at least 2, preferably 4 as Mike has said

 

[R&M]

I believe it's really bad practice but I can not think of any Reg to say it is against that. But it is against Approved Document P I think.

 

[Octopus]

I believe it's really bad practice but I can not think of any Reg to say it is against that. But it is against Approved Document P I think.

Check the BGB (thats on the basis that theres 1 rcd)

 

[nickblake]

typical rush rush rush dont give a stuff as long as it works and we get paid just no design thoughts ,just done a referb 3 bed bungalow its got 4 ring mains 4 lighting circuits ,freezer supply boiler supply ,and it has a run of cable tray running from one end to the other for the main loom and not one area does it cross the beams

 

[Gage]

I've heard a few lads noticing this in new builds lately. Seems to becoming common.

 

[spidersparks]

If you look carefully outside you can probably see where the installers horse stood! Usually go for 3-4 ring finals on our jobs

 

[dan86]

I've heard a few lads noticing this in new builds lately. Seems to becoming common.

fuffin better not be. I'm in the middle of buying a new build. if I find out its like that I'll be ripping the place to ****ing pieces

 

[dickiegeorge]

Thanks for everyone's replys. It's a split board, one RCD covering 4 mcb's which are lights up, lights down, heating and cooker. Other RCD for the one mcb protected ring main. I'll advise her to talk to the builders about it but is it too late?

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for everyone's replys. It's a split board, one RCD covering 4 mcb's which are lights up, lights down, heating and cooker. Other RCD for the one mcb protected ring main. I'll advise her to talk to the builders about it but is it too late?

Too late, probably. Builder guilty of cost cutting - 100%

 

[Paul.M]

Thanks for everyone's replys. It's a split board, one RCD covering 4 mcb's which are lights up, lights down, heating and cooker. Other RCD for the one mcb protected ring main. I'll advise her to talk to the builders about it but is it too late?

^^^^^^ can someone post up the reg numbers about this statement, just so wrong. I would do it myself but I no longer have the patience

 

[Jimmyb]

all lights on one mcb, one ring main WTF are they thinking and how are they still working lol

 

[markc123]

Thanks for everyone's replys. It's a split board, one RCD covering 4 mcb's which are lights up, lights down, heating and cooker. Other RCD for the one mcb protected ring main. I'll advise her to talk to the builders about it but is it too late?

I'd say definitley too late...he'll be back in eastern europe somewhere by now :38:

 

[Sintra]

:seeya: as he rides off :24:

 

[markythesparky]

A ring circuit is allowed to cover an area not exceeding 100m square.

What's your floor area where this circuit covers?

 

[kingeri]

A ring circuit is allowed to cover an area not exceeding 100m square.

What's your floor area where this circuit covers?

That's not strictly true any more, it's a historic guideline. Still a guideline today, though. I'd say the biggest issues are potential overloading of the ring circuit, lack of circuit segregation and possibly circuit length.

 

[Octopus]

That's not strictly true any more, it's a historic guideline. Still a guideline today, though. I'd say the biggest issues are potential overloading of the ring circuit, lack of circuit segregation and possibly circuit length.

Plus nuisance tripping by accumulative build up of earth leakage

 

[Engineer54]

I think what your all missing here, is that if this new build is part of a development companies estate, then the electrician(s) would be following an approved drawing and specification drawn up by either the development companies electrical Engineer, or the companies Architect!!

This all smells to me, like a cost cutting exercise by the actual developer using the Reg's to it's minimum requirements, rather than it being down to the electrician that installed the installation!!

 

[dickiegeorge]

Yes it's a new estate built by David Wilson Homes. I can't imagine a buildings inspector would accept work like this if it was was carried out on a rewire. Or maybe he would?

 

[Stroppy]

Depends how much he gets bunged to look the other way.

 

[Engineer54]

Yes it's a new estate built by David Wilson Homes. I can't imagine a buildings inspector would accept work like this if it was was carried out on a rewire. Or maybe he would?

So what would you expect a Building Inspector to know about electrical installations?? These housing development sites are almost totally controlled by the developer themselves, and as i said, they will be working to ''approved working drawings'' and to a ''specification'' which were probably accepted by the local council LABC/Planning dept, prior to anything being built!!

 

[Toonlad]

majority probably 99% new builds you get a plan of the building,showing electrical services, you count it off and design yourself. The 10yr man inspects might snag for more clips, but he does not go the CU and count circuits. Then once signed off all he asks for is a copy of the cert, and demo of smokes etc and then hes happy. They never dabble to deep into the electrical side.

Ps the last inspector pulled me for not writing spare on the spares,and the lad doing the next house didnt put a label on the cu stateing next test date (as it read on snag sheet-no red label- being the niceic printed ones he was referring to lmao)

 

[D Skelton]

I'm interested in peoples fascination with ring final circuits? I haven't wired a ring for years! Radials every time for me

 

[kingeri]

I'm interested in peoples fascination with ring final circuits? I haven't wired a ring for years! Radials every time for me

Noooo! Don't start that debate again......mind you I can't resist.

I think rings and radials both have their place but I install more and more radials these days. Some sparks I think still automatically think sockets = ring. I still install a ring for kitchens, but often radials for living room, bedrooms etc. Problem is, in my view there is no decent alternative to a 32 amp ring. A 32 amp radial wired in 4mm is limited in terms of installation method. You're pretty much limited to ref method C cos the CCC of 4mm drops below 32 amps pretty quickly! Not to mention the 1.5mm CPC limits circuit length.

 

[Octopus]

Noooo! Don't start that debate again......mind you I can't resist.

I think rings and radials both have their place but I install more and more radials these days. Some sparks I think still automatically think sockets = ring. I still install a ring for kitchens, but often radials for living room, bedrooms etc. Problem is, in my view there is no decent alternative to a 32 amp ring. A 32 amp radial wired in 4mm is limited in terms of installation method. You're pretty much limited to ref method C cos the CCC of 4mm drops below 32 amps pretty quickly!

If you exclude kitchen/utility areas what realistically do you expect the "load" to be in the average house for a ring/radial - not much.

 

[Toonlad]

Breaks out the popcorn.....

 

[kingeri]

If you exclude kitchen/utility areas what realistically do you expect the "load" to be in the average house for a ring/radial - not much.

Very true. I tend to provide 20a radials for all but kitchen these days.

 

[kingeri]

Mind you, those alarm clocks can pull a lot you know

 

[D Skelton]

Problem is, in my view there is no decent alternative to a 32 amp ring.

Two 20A radials

Each to their own I suppose, I'm not trying to start this debate again, like you said I just find most sparks fascination with rings (no pun intended) rather funny

We work domestic, commercial and industrial and it has been a very long time since we last designed to accomodate a ring final circuit!

 

[Engineer54]

I'd rather see 2 X staggered RFC's, over a couple of radials!! lol!!:wink_smile:

 

[D Skelton]

I'd rather see four radials ove a couple of staggered RFCs

 

[MDJ]

Nothing wrong with radials IMO, but I would certainely have the kitchen on a ring, or 2 haha, JMO, anyhow however back to the original OP, one ring for the whole house is pretty shocking really, the building inspector must be taken to breakfast regulary to decide not to look at the board and let that go.

 

[High Tower]

Also radials don't half speed up testing, handy when your against the clock!!

 

[Engineer54]

Nothing wrong with radials IMO, but I would certainely have the kitchen on a ring, or 2 haha, JMO, anyhow however back to the original OP, one ring for the whole house is pretty shocking really, the building inspector must be taken to breakfast regulary to decide not to look at the board and let that go.

He can't really say anything can he, even if he did know what he was looking at, ....if they have approved working drawings based on accepted drawings from his own council planning dept!! lol!!

 

[Engineer54]

I'd rather see four radials ove a couple of staggered RFCs

I pity your customers pockets/Tommy Tank account then ...lol!!