What is a Domestic Installer ?

[Dave Buchan]

Hi guys,

Here's an interesting one for you, if you look at the attachment on this post from the IET they define a domestic installer as " not an electrician "

If you go to the niceic website and click the 'FIND ELECTRICIAN' tab and select 'ALL ELECTRICAL WORK' it will display various domestic installers and approved contractors in your local area.

So is the domestic installer an ELECTRICIAN?

According to the people who write the national safety standards apparently this is not the case.......

Yet the guys who regulate them for crucial safety reasons seem to know otherwise.....

So who is right?

The IET

or

NICEIC

 

[grimysparks80]

Sparks who trained me wouldnt have touched a cup of tea if they knew id made it.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

I AM A 4 WEEK WONDER...............and have put many a time served spar right on these forums because I understand what I do. I have 25 years experiance in electro but mainly mechanical engineering, I understand weaponary, sighting systems, missiles, not to mention metalsmithing and vehicle recovery, so in every aspect I am multi diciplined. What I do is focus on what I am good at and domestic and light commercial electrics is where I sit. Unfortunately every trade is "dumbing" down and the only ones that are not are for example carpenters as they have to master a product that has not changed since man first propped two sticks together to build something!!

I did the 4 week batch of courses only to get a formal qual for what I already knew as that is what was demanded of the industry. As to workmanship......I agree with the comments here on both sides, but its got ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with training but the CORRECT APPLICATION of knowledge. I know guys who are absolute geniuses at their trade, but give them a tool and the job goes sour, Ive also had guys who struggled to get their name right on an exam paper but had natural tallent on their given trade.
It takes all sorts, and the customer is only happy with the job done right, safe and tidy and thats what I give them, Oh and with my 4 week course aside, I can work on 3 phase, do power factor calcs and work on motors, not to mention MENTOR 3 TIME SERVED SPARKS on DC electrics on the Solar PV Course.

Quals will get you so far, personal pride and ambition will take you much further............

 

[focusphil]

This is getting bitter and twisted as always, can we agree that this forum is here to help each other and yes apprentices are better than 7 week wonders I have done both having done 3yrs, then done nothing in the electrical trades, many years later night school,part p ,17th edition etc I only do domestics ,but I still think of myself as skilled,I dont go around slagging off industrial / commercial sparks (as a rule only when they moan about us) as they are more skilled so can we live and let live and enjoy this great forum and all the top guys on this site Thanks for your expertise and help

 

[grimysparks80]

agreed. "were all in this together". lol

 

[baldsparkies]

Well I hope this isn't a bitter and twisted thread ??? I was enjoying all the banter !!! Its what we Sparkies excel at.
Now go and make me a nice cup of tea 5 week wonder, and no urine in it, I can take the P without additional help, lol.
Weaponary sighting systems !!! We have Iron man on board now !!!

 

[Engineer54]

I AM A 4 WEEK WONDER...............

I agree with the comments here on both sides, but its got ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with training but the CORRECT APPLICATION of knowledge.

What he hell are you talking about ??? ......So how do you apply the correct application of knowledge, ...without first gaining the knowledge, in the first place ...ie ''Training''??!!!!!


Now if you think that 4 weeks of questionable training in being an electrician, can give a person without any prior electrical knowledge, in both theory, and experience, will enable him to have any idea in the correct application of anything electrical, ..... Your very much mistaken.

Oh, and unless those time served electricians were industrially trained, i can well believe, their lack of knowledge of DC electrics, as they would never have been involved with anything on the DC side of things...

 

[1shortcircuit]

I admire time served electricians, you are in fact what I want to become. Yes I've taken the short course but I read so many threads on here and I think damn, I wish I knew just a fraction of what some of the guys know.

I'd love the opportunity to work alongside some of you to prove that I'm not some good for nothing numpty that doesn't know one end of the screwdriver from the other. The problem is, the work either isn't there or too many of you wouldn't even give me a chance just because of the "5MW" title that I carry on my shoulders. I believe that with your professional guidance I could make it one day as a proper spark

The concern I have is that if some of you guys don't change your opinions then more and more DI's will come straight out of these workshops and straight into a newly formed companies working in peoples homes.

Changes need to be made for sure but in my opinion there should be a little give and take :thumbsup

 

[alarm man]

a domestic,someone who cooks,cleans,irons etc,a domestic installer as previous but can change a plug..

 

[1shortcircuit]

a domestic,someone who cooks,cleans,irons etc,a domestic installer as previous but can change a plug..

lol

Most members of the public don't even understand the word "Domestic" haha

 

[Big n Daft]

so let the house bashers bash and dont moan,you do your proper work !!!!

Missing the point Phil.
I can do houses and "proper work", but thats not the point. Its about deskilling the trade and people coming in to the trade and being told that they are the real deal when all they can do is wire a house. Its the training companies at fault, then again they have to sell the dream.

 

[Big n Daft]

care about the trade my --- ! its just full of people dripping that they got seen off for two or three years making tea, when people have become equally qualified in a fraction of the time.....I'm done!

You have been, well and truly by a training company, I bet.

 

[focusphil]

a domestic,someone who cooks,cleans,irons etc,a domestic installer as previous but can change a plug..

no need for this mate, save your energy for helping people, if your that good ? you should not feel you have to post this !!!!

 

[Big n Daft]

I agree. I am a house basher at the mo. I have plenty of domestic and light commercial experience and did 3 year apprenticeship, but would struggle in an industrial job.
One thing i would say tho is that its pretty difficult to find experience doing industrial work as companies advertising it always want experience in the first place.
I am a careful and concientous worker and if i ever got chance to work under supervision on industrial stuff i like to think I could pick it up pretty quickly. But i often have a look for these kind of jobs and dont believe id have a chance with my limited experience.
It makes me wonder who will do these jobs when all you fine gents finally retire. Real apprenticeships seem to be a thing of the past.

You have my respect. Grimy realises that it has to be earnt, not a god given right.

 

[alarm man]

no need for this mate, save your energy for helping people, if your that good ? you should not feel you have to post this !!!!

its called having a laugh man..makes the world go round...

 

[Big n Daft]

I AM A 4 WEEK WONDER...............and have put many a time served spar right on these forums because I understand what I do. I have 25 years experiance in electro but mainly mechanical engineering, I understand weaponary, sighting systems, missiles, not to mention metalsmithing and vehicle recovery, so in every aspect I am multi diciplined. What I do is focus on what I am good at and domestic and light commercial electrics is where I sit. Unfortunately every trade is "dumbing" down and the only ones that are not are for example carpenters as they have to master a product that has not changed since man first propped two sticks together to build something!!

I did the 4 week batch of courses only to get a formal qual for what I already knew as that is what was demanded of the industry. As to workmanship......I agree with the comments here on both sides, but its got ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with training but the CORRECT APPLICATION of knowledge. I know guys who are absolute geniuses at their trade, but give them a tool and the job goes sour, Ive also had guys who struggled to get their name right on an exam paper but had natural tallent on their given trade.
It takes all sorts, and the customer is only happy with the job done right, safe and tidy and thats what I give them, Oh and with my 4 week course aside, I can work on 3 phase, do power factor calcs and work on motors, not to mention MENTOR 3 TIME SERVED SPARKS on DC electrics on the Solar PV Course.

Quals will get you so far, personal pride and ambition will take you much further............

This man is not a DI. He is an engineer, hats off to you.

 

[Des 56]

All I am going to say is, I have done industrial installation and maintenance,commercial installation and domestic installation, with a short period labouring for my plasterer brother

I consider myself to be "a unit of labour"
If I didn't need the money,you could call me whatever you wanted to, as long as I didn't after get up tomorrow and stick another screwdriver in my hand.
I'll drink to that
:54:

 

[focusphil]

its called having a laugh man..makes the world go round...

SORRY ! only if you read the posts some people mean it

 

[Big n Daft]

I consider myself to be "a unit of labour"
Steady on Dessie old fella!!!
I thought I was on the forum for sec then

 

[electromonkey]

I think a new word has been invented. Domesticinstalleraphobic.

This argument is flawed on so many levels but ultimately boils down to this. In working life, not just the electrical industry, some people are good at what they do, and some people aren't. You may have lots of qualifications, you may not have many. This ultimately does not make you good or bad at your own job. How you do your job makes you good or bad.

 

[baldsparkies]

All joking aside lads, this is such a diverse trade.
There are so many levels of expertise and knowledge/experiance building that you can be in the game for umpteen years and will always be learning throughout.
Being a domestic sparks, is really about what your happy to do. If thats where your bread and butter lies then so be it. If youv'e been in the field long enough to gain experiance and with a competant working knowledge of how to do the job right, then your a domestic electrician by definition.
Moving on from there, commercial industrial work is far more complex for a variety of reasons, and any good electrician domestic or otherwise would fully appreciate this. There was a time when experiance and knowledge went hand in hand and stood for something. We all have to accept that some sparks have more experiance and knowledge than others. Surely that applies to all walks of life.
Lets not beat ourselves up about it.
At 58 I'm still learning the trade. And then again, I have my moments when I can pass on my knowledge to others.
If anyone thinks they have learnt all there is to know then think again. Sometimes we can teach and sometimes we can learn, doing it together, and helping each other out on sites just like this is really what its all about.