Jan 20, 2014
62
12
83
West Yorkshire
Hello
I attended a customers property today to check on a fault with some latern courtyard lamps. There are 4 lamps and the centre 2 are not working. The customer had replaced the bulbs himself but there was no joy.

As a first port of call I swapped the 2 working bulbs from the outer fittings with the unworking bulbs to rule out bulb failure. Once swapped the bulbs are fine with the outer two fittings but still no light on the centre 2.

I used a lightmate on the centre fitting and voltage is present at 230v. The customer was not present in the property at the time so I could only access the yard however there is no sign of any ballast anywhere near the lamp. The lanterns are attached to a high wall (perhaps 20ft) with pillars which the lights sit on. The flex from the fitting simply disappers down inside the pillar. I have done work at his property before and there is a room containing all the consumer units, AV gear and switchgear for the property but I cannot for the life in me remember seeing any ballasts for sodium/halide lamps in there, just armoured cable for the courtyard lighting exiting the room underground.

I didn't have my multimeter with me so the only test I could run was that voltage was present and even to check the fitting was tight used a normal BC energy saver which lit in all fittings.

What should my next course of action be? I'm not going to lie I don't have a huge wealth of experience with arc lighting. The customer had reported that the RCBO supplying the courtyard lighting (C6 RCBO) had tripped a couple of times prior to him changing these 2 bulbs after which there has been no more tripping.

Does this sound like the ballast itself is at fault? I think I already know the answer to this but would you think the original fitter have been stupid enough to encase the ballast within the pillar or even under the driveway for some reason?
The bulbs in question are these http://www.venturelightingeurope.com/products/whitelux-plus-lamps/13742.html which appear to be a direct swap for HPS lamps using the original ballast
 
Could also be an igniter somewhere, one things for sure, they wont work without. It must be somewhere
 
Hello
I attended a customers property today to check on a fault with some latern courtyard lamps. There are 4 lamps and the centre 2 are not working. The customer had replaced the bulbs himself but there was no joy.

As a first port of call I swapped the 2 working bulbs from the outer fittings with the unworking bulbs to rule out bulb failure. Once swapped the bulbs are fine with the outer two fittings but still no light on the centre 2.

I used a lightmate on the centre fitting and voltage is present at 230v. The customer was not present in the property at the time so I could only access the yard however there is no sign of any ballast anywhere near the lamp. The lanterns are attached to a high wall (perhaps 20ft) with pillars which the lights sit on. The flex from the fitting simply disappers down inside the pillar. I have done work at his property before and there is a room containing all the consumer units, AV gear and switchgear for the property but I cannot for the life in me remember seeing any ballasts for sodium/halide lamps in there, just armoured cable for the courtyard lighting exiting the room underground.

I didn't have my multimeter with me so the only test I could run was that voltage was present and even to check the fitting was tight used a normal BC energy saver which lit in all fittings.

What should my next course of action be? I'm not going to lie I don't have a huge wealth of experience with arc lighting. The customer had reported that the RCBO supplying the courtyard lighting (C6 RCBO) had tripped a couple of times prior to him changing these 2 bulbs after which there has been no more tripping.

Does this sound like the ballast itself is at fault? I think I already know the answer to this but would you think the original fitter have been stupid enough to encase the ballast within the pillar or even under the driveway for some reason?
The bulbs in question are these Whitelux Plus Lamps - 13742 which appear to be a direct swap for HPS lamps using the original ballast

Can't you open up the pillar to check? First course of action methinks. And yes, I am Shakespeare.
 
Opening the pillar is going to be a pain in the a**e but if it has to be done then it has to be done..... Whats the maximum distance from the lamp that the ballast/ignitor should be?
 
can't advise further without pictures of the fitting and what it's fitted to.

sorry.
 
I'll try and get some pictures when I go back to the property but to be fair without actually 'breaking into anything' its going to be hard to see anything from the pictures. The light fittings are just lanterns over a bayonet cap fitment in the middle (all heavy duty external stuff). There is an adaptor to ES screw fitment with the bulbs in. The only 'electrical' connections in the lamp are 1mm flexible cable leaving the bulb fitting and going under the 'flag' at the top of the stone pillar.

The distance from the house is maybe 10M, even if the ballast was sited in the room with all switchgear would it work remotely like this? As stated before my experience with arc lighting is just fitting simple spotlights not using remote ballasts like this.

Would there be a test I could conduct at the fitting to confirm that indeed a ballast (or ignitor) was at fault before I have to start removing blocks or otherwise hunting for these?
 
Are you sure the ballast and igniter are not concealed behind the silver reflector?
I am almost certain these lamps require an external igniter.
 
Are you sure the ballast and igniter are not concealed behind the silver reflector?
I am almost certain these lamps require an external igniter.
Yep, the type of fitting I think your describing usually have the control gear behind the reflector.

Take the lamp out, unscrew the reflector and have a look...
 
There is no reflector, the lamp looks like this:

lantern3_zps993a7163.jpg


The 'fitting' in the middle for the bulb is EXACTLY as shown in that picture and the only connection under the fitting is 1mm flexible cable that leads down into the pillar/wall to which it is fitted. There is nothing ballast or ignitor related within the lamp itself.
 
Has it a bc to es40 adapter fitted and a self ballasted lamp ? if so the lamps you are fitting wont work.

see PREMIUM QUALITY SELF BALLASTED 250W METAL HALIDE LAMP E40 5000K TUBULAR FITTING | eBay

the above is just an example there are loads more types available and connect directly to 220v mains (dont need a ballast)

The customer refitted these new bulbs and for some reason described them as 'wrong' although couldn't tell me why?

The adaptors are BC - E27

There are 4 lamps and this problem is only affecting the inner 2, they are all the same although perhaps the outer two are ballasted and the inner two are not?? Swapping bulbs from the inner to the outer makes no odds, it's still the two outer lamps which remain lit. Strangely enough an energy saving CFL BC bulb works in all 4 lamps
 
The customer refitted these new bulbs and for some reason described them as 'wrong' although couldn't tell me why?

The adaptors are BC - E27

There are 4 lamps and this problem is only affecting the inner 2, they are all the same although perhaps the outer two are ballasted and the inner two are not?? Swapping bulbs from the inner to the outer makes no odds, it's still the two outer lamps which remain lit. Strangely enough an energy saving CFL BC bulb works in all 4 lamps

That's because it's a normal bloody lampholder.
 
That's because it's a normal bloody lampholder.

So do normal bulbs work in ballasted fittings? Its not something I've ever really given any thought to....

Is that picture of the actual lantern because that looks like a filament lamp.

No, I haven't been back to the property yet thats the closest thing I could find online, the bulbs in question are definitely Metal Halide
 
No, I haven't been back to the property yet thats the closest thing I could find online, the bulbs in question are definitely Metal Halide[/QUOTE]

ITS A LAMP.
 
[/QUOTE] ITS A LAMP.[/QUOTE]

Then what did Thomas Edison invent???????

Thomas Alva Edison (February 11, 1847 – October 18, 1931) was an American inventor and businessman. He developed many devices that greatly influenced life around the world, including the phonograph, the motion picture camera, and a long-lasting, practical electric light bulb.

From Thomas Edison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


lamp (læmp)n1.a. any of a number of devices that produce illumination: an electric lamp; a gas lamp; an oil lamp.
b. (in combination): lampshade.

2. a device for holding one or more electric light bulbs: a table lamp.
3. a vessel in which a liquid fuel is burned to supply illumination
4. any of a variety of devices that produce radiation, esp for therapeutic purposes: an ultraviolet lamp.

From lamp - definition of lamp by The Free Dictionary


cables or wires next???
 
Please, I just need some opinions off more experienced forum members not a lesson on the terminology 'lamp'
"Please be reminded that if your reply can't help the original poster, it may be seen as pointless and taking the thread off topic."
 

Similar threads

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses Heating 2 Go Electrician Workwear Supplier
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Advert

Daily, weekly or monthly email

Thread starter

Joined
Location
West Yorkshire

Thread Information

Title
Metal Halide Lamp failure
Prefix
N/A
Forum
UK Electrical Forum
Start date
Last reply date
Replies
34

Advert

Thread statistics

Created
ray-bentos,
Last reply from
plugsandsparks,
Replies
34
Views
4,800

Advert