Brexit. We’re out!

[picturevalve]

I'll agree with the cod war situation and yes it hit the fishing industry but nothing like when Iceland fully pulled out, and where was the EU to realise our situation, turned its back and basically said stick it,

Have you got a reference for that?

 

[FatAlan]

Why are you getting bent out of shape over the fishing industry when it’s less than the turn over of HA RODS? Won’t be any fish left soon with the over fishing. We’ll all be vegan soon anyway.

 

[telectrix]

i don't eat fish anway, i stick to my 16oz. sirloins and T-bones ( that were panic banned by that fruitcake blair ).

 

[Darkwood]

Have you got a reference for that?

Firstly I probably should have expanded on my comment as to what I was referring to, you mentioned the cod wars of the past but that has been superseded by the mackerel wars that are still going on to some extent, the UK were a heavy fisher of mackerel and the story behind this is very complex but here is a link below, basically Iceland were set to join the EU but the financial crash bankrupt Iceland, they resorted to replenishing their fishing industry and ignored all agreed limitations on quota's, they fell out of favour with the EU and withdrew their application to join, meanwhile they imposed restrictions on fishing for other breeds from the EU within their waters and also forced the hand of the EU which left our fisheries badly damaged.
The point of bringing all this up is that the EU left us high and dry and failed to balance fishing within our own waters following the damage done by Iceland pulling out of the game, we put our complaints to Brussels but we were ignored and all those countries making a tidy profit in our waters voted down our plea, hence I said Karma - the coin has turned and now these same nations are saying we cannot take our waters back because it would badly damage their own industries yet they sat back and watched ours go and failed to offer even a small olive branch.

It is a long read and really doesn't get to the point until the header 'The conflict escalates' and what also badly damaged us 'Loss of marine stewardship'.

Brexit is our chance to reboot the industry under our own terms and sell to a new world trade that is heading our way, so even if the EU puts heavy tariffs on fish it will not do any damage, we simply fish for our new market all of which will generate thousands of jobs regardless.

Mackerel War | British Sea Fishing

The Mackerel War is an on-going and so far unresolved dispute between Britain (backed by the European Union and Norway) and the combined forces of Iceland and the Faeroe Islands.

britishseafishing.co.uk

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Why are you getting bent out of shape over the fishing industry when it’s less than the turn over of HA RODS? Won’t be any fish left soon with the over fishing. We’ll all be vegan soon anyway.

The turnover is not the way to look at this, it is the jobs it can create if we can get back our fishing industry, a large company can employ 100,000 people and make a profit of £1000 and fall below the tax line, this still means the company is viable and 100,000 people are in payed jobs and will spend their wages which puts back into the economy.
If we can take back our waters then the boost to fishing industry also creates jobs down the line for new and old companies in the supply chain, your error here is reading into a figure and % of what the fishing industry directly generates to the total economic figures, this is often deliberately played out this way for political reasons and bias, brexit has exposed so much bias in the media and this is a prime example, what the pro EU bias fail to promote and is what is important is that the jobs it will generate is the key thing, pitting the % of national revenue is irrelevent.

 

[R-fur]

% of national revenue is relevant. Fishing rights are worth a lot to the EU but nothing to Westminster, hence it is extremely likely that Westminster will trade away our fishing rights. Again

 

[Darkwood]

I beg to differ, the government has promised to keep to its pledges for which it was voted in and one of them was to take back full control which includes our fishing waters, I dare say there will be some agreement to limited access as part of a deal but nothing on the scale of the current offset against us the EU has, even if we give 20% access this still knocks 2/3rds of the EU's access and respectively we make the gains.. the reason why I say its contribution to the economy is irrelevant is because you need to factor in the strength of the economy, we are the 6th largest in the world so in reflection as a percentage fishing isn't going to show a big impact, yet if you were to look at the millions in revenue we currently get and them look at the possibilities and the 10,000's of jobs it would create both directly and indirectly then this isn't an opportunity the government would throw away.
Given we now hold all the cards, we have no reason or need to sacrifice a queen here to win the game unlike it was under May.

 

[Zerax]

I hope that the fisheries deal that's agreed will be a licence type deal. So a French fishing boat can apply for a licence (at significant cost) to fish in UK waters. This would probably limit the amount he could catch, the fishing type and be time limited, like for 1 year only say. This would allow us to control our waters, soften the blow to the militant frenchies and allow time for us to rebuild our own fishing fleet.

 

[Darkwood]

Like I said I dare say a limited access agreement would probably be the way to go, the problem here is policing such a deal, if you limit catches then you have to efficiently police them as a deterrent to them been ignored, I agree a total block to our waters wouldn't be a good move and any agreement should be subject to annual reviews and any country defying its allotted limits should be punished in the review.

 

[picturevalve]

I've just been sent this by a friend, perhaps betrays the (true?) gov't. thinking on the subject:

Defra adviser slammed over 'farmers not needed' comments - Farmers Weekly

Industry leaders have hit back after a government adviser suggested the UK doesn't need farmers and could import all its food instead. Remarks made by

www.fwi.co.uk

 

[littlespark]

I've just been sent this by a friend, perhaps betrays the (true?) gov't. thinking on the subject:

Defra adviser slammed over 'farmers not needed' comments - Farmers Weekly

Industry leaders have hit back after a government adviser suggested the UK doesn't need farmers and could import all its food instead. Remarks made by

www.fwi.co.uk

i just had a scan read of the article, and it states that the comments were made in a personal email, therefore nothing to do with govt, and possibly not meant for public. Ie, stolen or otherwise illegally obtained.

There are new technologies that I do believe farmers should be adopting. Vertical farming, where crops are grown in a warehouse, on shelves with the optimum water and uv light to grow, the warehouses using pv to power everything. Takes up a lot less land per tonne of crop.
Another thing in development is what could be called test tube meat. Where the cells are grown in a lab to create edible meat, even though no animals were killed to produce it.
Take that, vegans!

 

[Darkwood]

We already have a company using led lights and captured rain to grow tomatoes on a super industrial scale, we are already turning the curve of dependency and the only sufferers are those EU nations we were buying them from, it's cheaper, more environmentally friendly and can be tailored with taste by nutrient control... we will not use farmers in the traditional sense but still employ there expertise and land to build these super eco green houses.

 

[andyb]

We already have a company using led lights and captured rain to grow tomatoes on a super industrial scale, we are already turning the curve of dependency and the only sufferers are those EU nations we were buying them from, it's cheaper, more environmentally friendly and can be tailored with taste by nutrient control... we will not use farmers in the traditional sense but still employ there expertise and land to build these super eco green houses.

I don’t remember that during the campaign Darkwood ‘vote Brexit and get tasteless tomatoes and meat made in laboratories’

You’re wrong anyway. We grow some of the best veg and rear some of the best meat in the world, but not enough, and the fruit and veg is seasonal. So, we import the shortfall and always will do.

The price will go up and our agriculture industry will suffer but hey ho it’s what we voted for.

 

[Darkwood]

I don’t remember that during the campaign Darkwood ‘vote Brexit and get tasteless tomatoes and meat made in laboratories’

You’re wrong anyway. We grow some of the best veg and rear some of the best meat in the world, but not enough, and the fruit and veg is seasonal. So, we import the shortfall and always will do.

The price will go up and our agriculture industry will suffer but hey ho it’s what we voted for.

I never mentioned meat, I never said anything about not needing a farming industry either, I was reflecting on a real business already out there that is producing cheaper produce, using less water and no chemicals and now we are not EU regulated post 2020 we can totally benefit from such growing industries and not suffer EU red tape burden that crippled many of our farmers. I'm not sure where your post is coming from as I didn't bring up many points you injected into your reply.

 

[andyb]

I never mentioned meat, I never said anything about not needing a farming industry either, I was reflecting on a real business already out there that is producing cheaper produce, using less water and no chemicals and now we are not EU regulated post 2020 we can totally benefit from such growing industries and not suffer EU red tape burden that crippled many of our farmers. I'm not sure where your post is coming from as I didn't bring up many points you injected into your reply.

Sorry Darkwood I meant to quote Littlespark's post before yours as well, where he talks about test tube meats.
I was addressing that, and the super industrial scale tomatoes that you mentioned.

 

[Darkwood]

No worries, thought it was a bit abrasive but mine is an actual working industry that already supplies big supermarkets all year round for a seasonal product.... it's the future unlike garlic bread

 

[andyb]

No worries, thought it was a bit abrasive but mine is an actual working industry that already supplies big supermarkets all year round for a seasonal product.... it's the future unlike garlic bread

Now I'm doubly sorry Darkwood, I would never be knowingly abrasive. I try to engage in discussion and debate without upsetting people.

 

[Darkwood]

Now I'm doubly sorry Darkwood, I would never be knowingly abrasive. I try to engage in discussion and debate without upsetting people.

I don't mean it 'was' abrasive as you have since added context to confirm that you were replying to 2 people not one, it merely (as a response to me only for which I took it) didn't really fit what I posted and seemed like you were baiting some kind of knee-jerk reaction, when I am told 'I am wrong' I tend to like context that would have explained with what and why you disagree and more so some citation to back that opinion up.
Abrasive is probably a too strong a word here in reflection but it was somewhat a confusingly baiting response, anyway, water under the bridge you were polite enough to respond and correct the confusion.

PS - now we have context though, what evidence do you have to show that prices will go up, even as a Brexiteer I simply cannot make a bald claim on the contrary hence I gave an example where the UK is reducing its dependency and reducing costs to boot for the end user.

 

[andyb]

PS - now we have context though, what evidence do you have to show that prices will go up, even as a Brexiteer I simply cannot make a bald claim on the contrary hence I gave an example where the UK is reducing its dependency and reducing costs to boot for the end user.

Well as ever it’s down to the final agreement we sign with the EU. If we exit without a deal and on full WTO terms then there will be tariffs on our food imports, for example 21% on tomatoes. Factor in the extra transport costs i.e. customs clearance and delays at Dover then it’s clear, to me at least that prices will rise.

This s the worst-case scenario I think, and I still feel (possible naively) that a decent settlement will be agreed.

Do you have any evidence that prices will reduce?

 

[Zerax]

Do you have any evidence that prices will reduce?

Well... quite alot actually. Think about all the things that we currently have to pay a tariff on that don't originate from the EU... Pineapples for example ! EU tariff if 5.8% I think... but once we've left... 0%. There's a very very long list of EU tariffs that we won't need to pay if we revert to WTO rules.

And imagine if Barnier & co. stipulate a deal that harms Spanish or Italian exports to the UK... they'll be riots on the streets of Rome and Madrid !!!

 

[telectrix]

we already see that fuel has come down by about 10p/litre.