Solar Business

[GaryM]

Add to these comments the fact that your average "savvy" customer (me being one such..) will certainly not now be considering paying even the stated £6k to £8k for a 3KW system!
Heck, I didn't even pay that for each of the two 4KW systems I had done at the end of Feb!

The fact remains it was two identical 4kw systems fitted before the March deadline, all done and dusted for under £13k.

Less than £6K-£8K each would be less than £12K combined, not £13K, as in £5K something each.
I'm just curious how you managed such a good price (I can't say deal because it's not all about price) before the deadline.

 

[Vegelen]

Oh dear! Pardon me for breathing!!
The fact remains it was two identical 4kw systems fitted before the March deadline, all done and dusted for under £13k.

Please enlighten us with the components installed in your system and graphs showing your generation statistics for approximate location.

Size and cost are easy to brag about, but performance and longevity are not.

Those that buy quality solar equipment, will reap the benefits in time over those that go for the cheapest end of the solar market.

What looks good now may not look so good in future.

 

[dazzapsj1]

As my mum taught me, buy cheap, buy twice.

 

[Vegelen]

Exactly!

 

[sedgy34]

Dan, Your thoughts are spot on!! but before you reap any proffits you need to invest alot of cash in training,insurance,accreditations,policies for each project, health and safety policies,advertising, MCS acreditation!! There is a long list of criteria you require to do your first project
i spent £5,000 to get sorted before i did my first solar install, also there are cut throat prices out there between installers and its killing the market which isnt sustainable.

 

[SRE]

Mmm seems like the moral of the tale is buy cheap crap from an installer that doesn't care because the decent installers who bother to research and train their staff and don't cut corners, will bail you out with all sorts of information on here for you to go and bash your inadequate installer over the head with!

Mozzer, were you really surprised that you had that much hassle with your installer if that was all you were paying. As they say pay peanuts - get monkeys!

 

[wstevew]

Compare Live


If these are His systems they appear to perform ok


Both 4000TL inverters with 16 250W suntellite panels

 

[dazzapsj1]

For now they are performing OK, will it last. Top quality mounting system, top spec cable, top spec connectors, me thinks not, at that price. How much after-care service is built in that price, if something goes wrong. How did they get dno permissions so quick with 4000tls, have they got it? I am just struggling to see how this was all achieved at that price without corners being cut, as I do not think the company would have cut their profit at that point with the market going crazy. But who knows.

 

[Mozzerr]

Less than £6K-£8K each would be less than £12K combined, not £13K, as in £5K something each.

Correct. Ok, so I was playing devil's advocate slightly by saying it how I said it.. But it was intended to make the point to the OP that pricing has dropped significantly... And it was meant well - simply to demonstrate the fact to the OP that his margins need to be researched carefully.

The fact that I also received two quotes for the same installation in excess of £24k is frankly obscene IMHO. But there we are.. (all like for like equipment I might add - not that the rip-off merchants would necessarily know that I would have a clue..)

 

[Mozzerr]

Mozzer, were you really surprised that you had that much hassle with your installer if that was all you were paying. As they say pay peanuts - get monkeys!

Totally agree... But, with respect, I ain't no monkey... And if/when given monkeys, I make damn sure I do my best to keep an eye on 'em... £6k or £16k it's all hard earned.. and I can't afford to just p*** it away.

 

[sedgy34]

Mozzer
For a Pv system sounds like you have had a bargain even with this material did you play one off against the other to get that price

 

[sedgy34]

Hi DP,
Totally agree we are mcs and didn't realise what criteria was required what a load of tosh
If you want maybe we can do your stuff for you!!! We do have another company wanting us do there installs
Too. Might as well make the most of getting mcs registered as our filling system looks like a government office lol

 

[sedgy34]

lightgen
you sum it up perfectly we are solar installers and doing everything right!!! but the publicity you talk about has put people off .
If the government had not changed the fit rate and there were no free solar or mis use the economy would have been kickstarted again quicker instead panick from the government caused chaos and those people behind the free solar nonsense. who are the people behind the free solar??

 

[Vegelen]

if/when given monkeys, I make damn sure I do my best to keep an eye on 'em...

You are a versatile man, a monkey keeper, as well as a savvy solar buyer.

One simple question:

Why didnt you choose better quality solar panels out there given your savvy solar ability?

Better quality solar panels would have increased your solar FITS earning potential per annum by 16-28%, over 25 years. If this additional FITS money was invested annually, this would make a massive difference over 25 years.

To me Solar is a slow, incremental energy creation generating scheme for the long term.

Not a get rich quick, double your money "overnight" scheme for the greedy.

Those that look at long term earnings, with quality, suitably oriented, well designed solar systems, designed to last, outperforming similar systems in their area, with decent warranties or backup should your system fail, those are the true solar savvy customers.

People bragging on forums, going for cheapest first, that have inflated ego's / opinions of self worth, which fail to do sufficient homework and worse still encourage others to ditch quality, in the quest for price. These are the people to avoid.
They will be the people coming back in 7-10 years time bleating about their solar install, expecting advice from "neutrals" about how to repair failed solar inverters, or solar panels with diminishing returns after their solar manufacturer has gone bankrupt.

Do your homework when buying a solar system.

Don't be seduced by cheapest is best.

A 16-28% solar loss will prove significant for Mozerr over 25 years.

 

[Mozzerr]

...even with this material...

The panels are insurance backed guaranteed, the SMA 4000TL inverter has the manufacturers extended warranty and the installation/workmanship has an independent warranty insurance. Don't know what brand the roof fittings and rails are but I was up on the roof while they were being installed and I'm happy with their quality. Even had them replace 3 cracked roof tiles which were already broke, not by them during install!! So not sure what other sub-standard "material" you are alluding to?

...did you play one off against the other to get that price...

Had a total of ten quotes, only 3 of which actually visited the house. You learn as you go what's required - then no point in wasting mine or other's time once you know what you want. Obviously basing the price negotiations all on one 4Kw install, then introducing the requirement for two identical installs close together had the benefit of certain economies of scale.

 

[Vegelen]

Compare these 2 systems:

Compare

Better quality, more expensive solar panels will reap extensive dividends over 25 years, compared with cheaper, poorer quality ones.

Cheapest is not always best.

A 19% solar gain will be significant over 25 years, especially if the annualised proceeds are reinvested.

 

[Mozzerr]

LOL.. All fair comments from Veggie, but you can't really compare two systems with so many variables to contend with...

Whatever, I'm happy with my total 8Kwp for what it has cost.

The fact that some have chosen to see what was intended as factual data to aid the OP in his decision as "bragging" is a bit of a shame IMHO. Perhaps they should get back to updating their daily generation figures on the other thread - which seems to have degenerated into a "who can pee the highest" competition.

 

[Vegelen]

Mozzerr should be congratulated on installing 8KW on 43.3p FITS.

In time he'll do well, regardless.

I was just trying to say "Cheapest isn't always best".

Many people, focus on price at the expense of performance / quality which is shortsighted.

Solar panels need to match the typical weather environment they are installed in.

In NW England, the ideal panel would perform well in low light and bright light conditions.

Many panels do one, or t'other but seldom both.

 

[Gavin A]

Compare these 2 systems:

Compare

Better quality, more expensive solar panels will reap extensive dividends over 25 years, compared with cheaper, poorer quality ones.

Cheapest is not always best.

A 19% solar gain will be significant over 25 years, especially if the annualised proceeds are reinvested.

sorry, but this is a rubbish comparison.

One is facing south east, the other is south facing, which would be enough to account for the vast majority of that difference at this time of year, plus they're 50 miles apart.

One is also presumably single string and operating at the peak of the inverters efficiency range, the other dual string and operating significantly below the inverters efficiency range.

Do you have any better evidence for your 16-28% improvement claim? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Glen Powell]

The only thing I am going to say is be wary of insurance backed warranties, as I have found most are not worth the paper they are written on but most think well its insurance backed so I must be safe.

A number of the chinese manufacturers pay a yearly premium for the insurance and if the premium is not paid then no insurance, there are insurance policies out there of which we looked at adding on to our packages that cover every eventuality including loss of earning, but when put forward to customers they prefered to take their chances.

However coming into light that 40% of large manufacturers may hit the wall in the comming months they may reconsider their position.

A premium for irrevocable insurance over the life of the panels is extremely expensive and only a few chinese manufacturers do it.