New Mains Powered smoke alarm beta testers needed.

[mark101]

As with previous posters I have the same issues with the inadequacy of the terminal box.By the way, I never connect them up as shown in the photo as I would end up tearing my hair out. I terminate before mounting the the base. Far easier.

I install hundreds of these alarms every year two lots of 3cores is the norm but not idea, it is possible to terminate three lots of 3 cores but it is tricky and I would not like to do it on a regular basis would much rather use a radio link if possible and take power from somewhere else

 

[Vortigern]

how do you connect 2 x 3c&e or 3 x 3c&e

With great difficulty! Hence the swearing, wondering if the people who design these things ever rig test them, I don't think so btw.

 

[Simon47]

They probably do test them - but at bench level, in a nice well lit lab, etc, etc. So not while perched on a ladder, with bits of plasterboard dropping in your face, and with room to tuck the spare cable into the void behind their test rig.

 

[LastManOnline]

I

I kind of like fitting aico however not if it's 1.5mm 3 core or lsf. if its 1mm 3core

I, m obliged to use a firetuff 3 core + earth. An extra core plus a less flexible cable which obviously does, nt help.

 

[pc1966]

Do they even make the FP200 or similar in 1mm?

 

[LastManOnline]

Do they even make the FP200 or similar in 1mm?

Must admit I have never seen it. In any case I am not allowed to use 1mm(more,s the pity!)

 

[pc1966]

Must admit I have never seen it. In any case I am not allowed to use 1mm(more,s the pity!)

It is one of the oddities in the UK regs that 1mm is only permitted for fixed wiring if it is for lightning. 1.5mm is the minimum for "power".

Now you can say the fire alarms are being mains powered, so need to have 1.5mm (for reasons nobody has quite explained) as a dedicated supply, even if from a 6A MCB. However, often they are permitted to be powered from a lighting circuit since people will notice and presumably fix any trip of that supply, which of course is probably done all in 1mm!

 

[mark101]

It is one of the oddities in the UK regs that 1mm is only permitted for fixed wiring if it is for lightning. 1.5mm is the minimum for "power".

Now you can say the fire alarms are being mains powered, so need to have 1.5mm (for reasons nobody has quite explained) as a dedicated supply, even if from a 6A MCB. However, often they are permitted to be powered from a lighting circuit since people will notice and presumably fix any trip of that supply, which of course is probably done all in 1mm!

That has never crossed my mind to be fair good shout

 

[togglenation]

It is one of the oddities in the UK regs that 1mm is only permitted for fixed wiring if it is for lightning. 1.5mm is the minimum for "power".

Now you can say the fire alarms are being mains powered, so need to have 1.5mm (for reasons nobody has quite explained) as a dedicated supply, even if from a 6A MCB. However, often they are permitted to be powered from a lighting circuit since people will notice and presumably fix any trip of that supply, which of course is probably done all in 1mm!

Wow, that's really odd. Can you point out which regulation forces to do so?

 

[pc1966]

Wow, that's really odd. Can you point out which regulation forces to do so?

Don't have my BBB with me but can look it up later. It is in the same section that only allows aluminium cables of 16mm and above (just for info!)

 

[polaroid]

This would be Table 52.3 P144 ?

 

[littlespark]

So what’s the reg here?
Are you saying that as smoke detectors are “not lighting” then they must be power, and as such have to be wired in 1.5 instead of 1mm?

Even though they are coming off a 6A OCPD, which 1mm can easily handle.

Common sense prevails over pedantic choice of words in the book here methinks.

 

[polaroid]

So what’s the reg here?
Are you saying that as smoke detectors are “not lighting” then they must be power, and as such have to be wired in 1.5 instead of 1mm?

Even though they are coming off a 6A OCPD, which 1mm can easily handle.

Common sense prevails over pedantic choice of words in the book here methinks.

Note 4 says that it applies to lighting circuits and associated small items of current using equipment, such as a bathroom fan.

Going by that table if a smoke alarm is wired in the lighting circuit it can be 1mm but if a dedicated circuit it has to be 1.5mm ?

[Edit] Specific reg is 524.1 that just mentions conductors shall not be less than stated in table 52.3 (Except ELV)

 

[togglenation]

We're thinking about a similar concept for the Smoke Alarm base like in this video.

To give an easy solution for installation when you have 3 x 3C&1E cables. What do you think?)

And the question: - Do you guys often face a need to terminate 3 x 3C&1E?

 

[brianmoooore]

Video doesn't work for me.
Rarely need 3 x 1.0mm2 3&E into the terminals, but it does happen occasionally. 2 x 3&E plus 1 x T&E would probably be needed more often, so that you can 'inject' power part way along the string of detectors, instead of just at the end.
2 x 3&E is the most common, found in every base except the first and last.
Produce a copy of Aico, but with a terminal box four times the size, and you may have a winner.

 

[UNG]

Video doesn't work for me

I've been following this thread since it started and the one thing that stands out is that Aico are the preferred choice for a lot of installers, the Aico product has been developed over the last 30 years so and is continually developing aside from a more electrician friendly termination what is the OP's company bringing to the party in terms of improvements and product range.
Aico are already developing building monitoring products as an add on to their current offerings will the OP's company be following this route as well if so I think they have a steep development curve to overcome to catch up to where the current market position is, Aico and Fire Angel have remote monitoring gateways, Aico's gateway took around 2 - 3 years to come to market from when it was first shown at one of their roadshow events so the total development time was probably more like 5+ years

So the question to the OP would be how long will it take to bring your products to the market place

 

[togglenation]

Video doesn't work for me

I've been following this thread since it started and the one thing that stands out is that Aico are the preferred choice for a lot of installers, the Aico product has been developed over the last 30 years so and is continually developing aside from a more electrician friendly termination what is the OP's company bringing to the party in terms of improvements and product range.
Aico are already developing building monitoring products as an add on to their current offerings will the OP's company be following this route as well if so I think they have a steep development curve to overcome to catch up to where the current market position is, Aico and Fire Angel have remote monitoring gateways, Aico's gateway took around 2 - 3 years to come to market from when it was first shown at one of their roadshow events so the total development time was probably more like 5+ years

So the question to the OP would be how long will it take to bring your products to the market place

I would say the Q4 2022. I know that the AICO is HUGE (>£140m in revenue only in the UK). However, we have something more to offer, not limited to fire safety.

And you're saying that the video above is not working for you. Don't you mind to tell why? Looks like a great concept from my POV. And we definitely want to give an alternative for screw terminal connection.

We will have 3D printed prototypes in a ~month, will be glad if you guys can look at it)

 

[UNG]

I would say the Q4 2022. I know that the AICO is HUGE (>£140m in revenue only in the UK). However, we have something more to offer, not limited to fire safety.

Aico are already looking to exploit their gateway comms with property monitoring products, so what are you and your company looking to offer

And you're saying that the video above is not working for you. Don't you mind to tell why? Looks like a great concept from my POV. And we definitely want to give an alternative for screw terminal connection.

Press the play button and the video doesn't load, therefore it isn't working

We will have 3D printed prototypes in a ~month, will be glad if you guys can look at it)

It will be interesting to see

 

[DPG]

+1 for the video not working. Has the file been moved or renamed maybe?

 

[togglenation]

Sorry for video, might work now)