I would like to reuse a 10mm cable to provide a ring circuit in an area. The cable is currently used for an electric shower, still connected at present and is fine. When the shower is removed I intended to replace the 40A breaker with a 32A, slightly reroute the cable and add a ring to then end. I have no idea where regs might stand on this however I can see no electrical reason why it should not be ok. I imagine that rerunning the ring will be suggested but that is easier said than done. Any thoughts.
It’s known as a lollipop ring, or lollipop circuit.
Not very common, but doable.
Make a note of it on the test sheet under “departures”
Not very common, but doable.
Make a note of it on the test sheet under “departures”
I think his intention is to mention it on the paperwork just to make sure future electricians know there is a non conventional circuit on the installation.
Technically yes. Maybe a note attached to the report?
If you are implying that the customer doesn’t keep a hold of the test certs for any future sparky… then why do we bother filling them in at all? 
Whether it’s recorded as a departure or somewhere else… I just meant it should be noted somewhere.
Any future spark working on a board should have enough common sense to realise if say, circuit 1 is a 10mm, but circuit chart says sockets… then there’s something unusual going on. Quick read would confirm it’s by design and not a mistake.
Whether it’s recorded as a departure or somewhere else… I just meant it should be noted somewhere.
Any future spark working on a board should have enough common sense to realise if say, circuit 1 is a 10mm, but circuit chart says sockets… then there’s something unusual going on. Quick read would confirm it’s by design and not a mistake.
The more common example of this has an isolator switch at the feed -> RFC point, for example, for a laboratory/classroom/etc.
You don't need one here, but at least an accessible and labelled junction box location is good, such as a blanking plate on the old cooker outlet, etc. 10mm is too big for the usual Wagos, but you might find something of adequate rating to fit in there.
You don't need one here, but at least an accessible and labelled junction box location is good, such as a blanking plate on the old cooker outlet, etc. 10mm is too big for the usual Wagos, but you might find something of adequate rating to fit in there.
M
MDJ
No do not do that, it is rough and not the way. you could take the 10mm2 cable into a little enclosure with a lid and a double pole isolator switch and connect it to the top, then the 2 2.5mm2 cables of the new ring to the bottom, label the enclose and then that is better that a lollypop connection. the enclosure could be fitted in a cupboard or somewhere less noticeable to the eye whilst acting as a connection box and isolating switch. Personally I don't even like that idea but better than a lolly pop connection.
M
MDJ
Absolutely mate, totally agree, I have made a suggestion but am watching this thread closely.
D
davesparks
How would that be any different? Other than adding an isolator, which nobody will ever use, and will be just another potential point of failure, but hat does it achieve?
And what is wrong with the lollipop circuit?
Just because a circuit doesn't comply with the standard circuits laid out in the on-site guide it doesn't make it any less valid or compliant.
M
MDJ
Hey Dave I understand your point, as said in my reply I don't really like the isolator either, but it is good for connecting a 10mm2 to 2x2.5mm2 cables tight and securely, I am wondering how the 10mm2 and the 2 new 2.5mm2 cables are to be joined to create a lollypop, I have seen this before. One way is to join it through with crimps which I think is carp, yes you can get crimps with a 10mm2 hole one side and a 6mm2 the other, but where are you doing this? under the floor, in a JB ? I am unsure, My suggestion is without doubt not great but I have seen it done and I think better than crimping it through, lets see what the OP comes back with, happy to hear your preffered method too.
Could stick something like this in a little box on some din rail to get the connection. In a cupboard much like the isolator would be really, would be maintainable and hits the required CSA needs as per manufacturers spec. Would be much nicer with stranded cables and some double ferrules!
M
MDJ
funnily enough and as a total coincidence I had a chat to a sparky yesterday who did this exact same not so long ago and he said he used maintenance free terminals/ wagos/ connection points to join the 2x2.5mm2 cables to the 10mm2 cable and used these in a maintenance connection box to create a lollypop ring, Dave sparks based on the chat with him although I hate the idea I am now of the opinion it is not terrible and it is doable, even in my mid life crisis I do learn something new 
I would have liked to have seen a pic of the MF wago/enclosure.funnily enough and as a total coincidence I had a chat to a sparky yesterday who did this exact same not so long ago and he said he used maintenance free terminals/ wagos/ connection points to join the 2x2.5mm2 cables to the 10mm2 cable and used these in a maintenance connection box to create a lollypop ring, Dave sparks based on the chat with him although I hate the idea I am now of the opinion it is not terrible and it is doable, even in my mid life crisis I do learn something new
T
Teddy Lop
By the time you've run in and terminated all that 6 you might as well have rerun the circuit in 2.5!
For me if the legs back to the CU are really that traumatic I'd just use 2.5 and make it a radial or stuff a small cu on the end making the 10 a submain. The problem with lollipop circuits is what values you record on testing and leaving non-obvious things for future workers, as invariably the junction will end up being concealed.
a cooker connection block would take the 10mm, and put the 2x2.5 in the other end of the terminal; a label on the consumer unit for that circuit stating that the 10mm has been de-rated to 32a would be useful.
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