Discuss what do these 380v wiring colours mean, I want to use with a 220v vfd. it may have had speed control in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hello, I am a woodworker who has got a large old power feed, its 380v and i want someone to rewire to a 220v vfd for me, can someone please tell me what these old colour codes mean. I bought the machine in Scotland.I can't find any easy diagrams online.I think its a good few years old.Thank you!

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
 
TL;DR
see pic of old wiring , what do the colours mean?> typically?
1 2 3 4 5 6 7, it may have had speed control?
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James

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Most likely you have a star delta wired motor. The 6 wires plus green/yellow (earth) are the ends of 3 separate windings.

It is a little to complex to explain on a forum but it is unlikley to be possible to use a single phase vsd, you will probably need a 3 phase one or a new motor.

To confirm, can you post a pic of the motor rating plate?
 
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  • #3
Most likely you have a star delta wired motor. The 6 wires plus green/yellow (earth) are the ends of 3 separate windings.

It is a little to complex to explain on a forum but it is unlikley to be possible to use a single phase vsd, you will probably need a 3 phase one or a new motor.

To confirm, can you post a pic of the motor rating plate?
Thank you, i will do that tommorow.
 
No you cannot just rewire a three phase motor so it will run on a single phase supply,
you can how ever get a electronic convertor / motor speed control
not cheap mind you but will work splendidly
 
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  • #5
Most likely you have a star delta wired motor. The 6 wires plus green/yellow (earth) are the ends of 3 separate windings.

It is a little to complex to explain on a forum but it is unlikley to be possible to use a single phase vsd, you will probably need a 3 phase one or a new motor.

To confirm, can you post a pic of the motor rating plate?
79323948_2394291114215533_5123692591656730624_n.jpg79433539_1195855287284895_7711502475890524160_n.jpg79680116_561356141317943_5203009784231493632_n.jpg

Thank you, I think i see what you mean about complicated. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h89TTwlNnpY


I will have to work out what motor to replace it with, guessing if it is a stardelta motor arrangement this would have to have a separate panel with switches and timers? and 3 phase., this is likely too expensive for me to setup. I need to figure out an alternative to closely match performance, if you could let me know what I should look for off the name plate, that would be amazing.

Iv tried to take good pics, its very shiny and hard to read.

The two pics are of the left and right sides of the plate.

If you're not able to read it, please let me know and I will write it out.

Thanks a million.
 

James

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Ok, it’s got 6 windings inside, wires star, star.
An unusual setup for such a small motor.
Y is the symbol for star and the triangle is the symbol for delta.

It is probably cheaper to replace the motor with a single phase motor.
Unless you need variable speed.
In that case I would go for a 3ph 230v motor and a vfd

I can’t see any numbers after the triangle n the voltage area of the plate.
Post automatically merged:

Something like this might do you well
You will have to check dimensions and shaft size etc

 
Last edited:
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  • #7
Thank you very much.

These numbers read off the plate.

380yy delta

0.25kw

1370/80 rpm? I can detach from the gearbox

0,75/0,75 A
Co's 84/.62

Ip44

Have read these straight off

I'm new to motors, 3ph 3 phase 240 v motor

What horsepower or or kw.

How do I know the torque required?

It powers 9 wheels via sprockets and chains. It needs to be strong.

I might have to get a custom mounting plate made.

It's worth getting it working but is there a way I can get a suitable 240v motor at variable speed and suitable torque?






Ok, it’s got 6 windings inside, wires star, star.
An unusual setup for such a small motor.
Y is the symbol for star and the triangle is the symbol for delta.

It is probably cheaper to replace the motor with a single phase motor.
Unless you need variable speed.
In that case I would go for a 3ph 230v motor and a vfd

I can’t see any numbers after the triangle n the voltage area of the plate.
Post automatically merged:

Something like this might do you well
You will have to check dimensions and shaft size etc

 

James

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Take the original to a local industrial motor supplier and ask for a replacement to your spec. They will be able to sell you something suitable.
£100 to £150 would be my guess
 
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  • #9
Thanks a million for helping
Next step decide if I need variable speed control :)

Torque, can we tell what it currently is off the plate?


Will do that re supplier thanks!



Take the original to a local industrial motor supplier and ask for a replacement to your spec. They will be able to sell you something suitable.
£100 to £150 would be my guess
 

Simon47

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Arms
I think that motor will connect as 230V delta and run fine from a variable frequency drive - 380V Y is about 225V delta. The 240V single phase input VFDs drives only output 240V 3P, they don't step up to 415V.
I assume there's a terminal box with a cover you can remove ? Please post a photo of the inside of that showing clearly what's currently connected - and if there's a diagram inside the lid, post a photo of that as well.
 

Lucien Nunes

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I think it's a dual-speed pole-changing motor!

  • The speeds are probably 1370 / 680 rpm (not 80, which looks like it means the gearbox output but I don't think that's correct). Please could you look closely at the plate and see if it is in fact 680.
  • The configuration is shown as YYΔ I.e. there are two sets of 3-phase windings for the two speeds.
  • It gives two equal values for line current (both 0.75A) and two values for cos φ, one of which is much lower than the other (that's usually the low speed).

If it were a single-speed motor designed to run in either 230V delta / 380V star, it would show both voltages and two different line currents. If I am correct, then it requires 380V for normal running in delta and cannot be operated directly from a 230V single-to-three-phase inverter.

Let's see inside the terminal box!
 
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  • #12
Thanks all, this is great to have your input.

Opened the casted cover and found:
I can retake photo again if wires are too hard to see, seems like 3 are joined across with solder. A german friend translated for me.???
3-phase-wiring-question.png

see.3.jpg1.jpg1.jpg


I think that motor will connect as 230V delta and run fine from a variable frequency drive - 380V Y is about 225V delta. The 240V single phase input VFDs drives only output 240V 3P, they don't step up to 415V.
I assume there's a terminal box with a cover you can remove ? Please post a photo of the inside of that showing clearly what's currently connected - and if there's a diagram inside the lid, post a photo of that as well.
Post automatically merged:

I think it's a dual-speed pole-changing motor!

  • The speeds are probably 1370 / 680 rpm (not 80, which looks like it means the gearbox output but I don't think that's correct). Please could you look closely at the plate and see if it is in fact 680.
  • The configuration is shown as YYΔ I.e. there are two sets of 3-phase windings for the two speeds.
  • It gives two equal values for line current (both 0.75A) and two values for cos φ, one of which is much lower than the other (that's usually the low speed).

If it were a single-speed motor designed to run in either 230V delta / 380V star, it would show both voltages and two different line currents. If I am correct, then it requires 380V for normal running in delta and cannot be operated directly from a 230V single-to-three-phase inverter.

Let's see inside the terminal box!

Thank you
i just checked,you're right it is 680 (very hard to see), there are nine wheels with sprockets and chain, is that the speed control? the speed needed, im guessing 50 - 100 rpm
 

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Lucien Nunes

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The terminal diagram cast into the cover is a generic one, showing the normal options of star for high voltage and delta for low. However, it may not actually apply to your motor, as such a configuration would invariably also be indicated by the two voltages being stamped on the plate, whereas you only have 380V.

Do you have a multimeter? If so, please could you confirm which terminals show continuity to which others.

If you look at the black terminal block moulding there are terminal labels moulded in next to the studs. Probably something like:
U1-V1-W1
V2-W2-U2
Or its mirror image.

If you have continuity U1-U2 and V1-V2 and W1-W2 but not U1-V1 then the dual speed thing may be a red herring.

If you have continuity U1-V1-W1 and U2-V2-W2 but not U1-U2 then it is indeed a dual winding, dual speed motor. The speeds would be selected with a 3-pole changeover switch on the panel.
 
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  • #14
The terminal diagram cast into the cover is a generic one, showing the normal options of star for high voltage and delta for low. However, it may not actually apply to your motor, as such a configuration would invariably also be indicated by the two voltages being stamped on the plate, whereas you only have 380V.

Do you have a multimeter? If so, please could you confirm which terminals show continuity to which others.

If you look at the black terminal block moulding there are terminal labels moulded in next to the studs. Probably something like:
U1-V1-W1
V2-W2-U2
Or its mirror image.

If you have continuity U1-U2 and V1-V2 and W1-W2 but not U1-V1 then the dual speed thing may be a red herring.

If you have continuity U1-V1-W1 and U2-V2-W2 but not U1-U2 then it is indeed a dual winding, dual speed motor. The speeds would be selected with a 3-pole changeover switch on the panel.

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this, I don't have a multimeter but either way I have to organise a single phase 240v motor(preferably with speed control.
I don't have access to 3 phase.

How do I work out what is a good replacement, is another generic .25 kw motor ( with correct form factor (and shaft location) with speed of
1370 / 680 rpm the way to go?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this, I don't have a multimeter but either way I have to organise a single phase 240v motor(preferably with speed control.
I don't have access to 3 phase.

How do I work out what is a good replacement, is another generic .25 kw motor ( with correct form factor (and shaft location) with speed of
1370 / 680 rpm the way to go?
Is this on the right track?

 
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