First Job - Advice Required - External LED Floodlights

[MBEINST]

Hi All

I am about to undertake my first job installing outside lights for the signage on a retail outlet. I need to get this bang on because it will be part of my ELECSA accreditation.

The customer wants four 10W LED Floodlights installed to light up the sign outside. Previous wiring exists to an old timer unit which I was alarmed to find is still live and in the customer area of the outlet only protected by a screw on clear plastic cover, which could be easily removed by curious little fingers!

Anyway my install plan is to replace this timer unit with a new one in its current position. Run two meters of 1.5mm T&E in plastic conduit through the false ceiling and then through the external wall, continue the T&E in the conduit up the remaining meter of the wall and onto the flat roof. I will then continue the T&E/Conduit across the top of the sign and through IP65 junction boxes at relevant intervals. The cable on the lights, which will be supplied, is only about 30cm long and will be wired into the junction boxes.

This is my first paid job and in addition to feedback on my method I would also like an idea of how much I should be charging. My thoughts are:

[TABLE="width: 390"]
[TR]
[TD]Materials[/TD]
[TD]Quantity[/TD]
[TD]Cost Each[/TD]
[TD]Total Cost[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ZXL LED Flood Light (Supplied)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£0.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Floodlight Extension Arm[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£9.27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£37.08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]IP65 Junction Box[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£2.48[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£9.92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24hr Timer (general purpose)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£17.66[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£17.66[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1.5mm Twin & Earth (Meters)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£0.52[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£7.80[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20mm Conduit (Meters)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£0.54[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£8.10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Conduit Saddles[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£0.23[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£4.60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Conduit Elbows[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£0.72[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£4.32[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Labour (Per Hour)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£25.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£75.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Sub Total[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£164.48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]VAT[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£32.90[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]£197.38[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Feedback is will be very much appreciated.


'Example is the school of mankind, they will learn at no other'

 

[Hiddo]

If I were you I would consider running your T+E/Conduit to the outside wall and into a 1 way conduit box. Then out of that through a stuffing gland with pond flex to a 3 way (T) conduit box at each point where a light is to be installed until the last light where a 2 way box can be used. The led leads can be brought through the stuffing glands and joined to the pond flex using wagos.

I think you might have allowed yourself too little time with 3hrs but I suppose only you will know the job as you have seen it.

 

[londonlec]

Just a tip, I never break down materials/labour on my estimates.

Stick 10-20% on the materials to cover your time getting hold of them etc.

I'd also allow a bit more time for the work.

 

[john999uk]

To a certain degree you are forgetting little things like rawlplugs, screws, wear and tear on drill bits and drills, fuel to and from job etc. Remember all the little things add up so you need to include an allowance for them. As LondonLec said add 10-20% on top of materials for sundry items.

 

[Brightspark2]

Or SWA...I wouldn't use conduit...

Sent from my Xperia S using next doors WIFI

 

[Octopus]

Why are you charging VAT?

 

[Tanzy]

Just a tip, I never break down materials/labour on my estimates.

Stick 10-20% on the materials to cover your time getting hold of them etc.

I'd also allow a bit more time for the work.

As part of the ELECSA Assessment the quote needs to show a break down of parts and labour....

 

[Steve_P]

Really? Never did when I was with ELECSA. So long as there's a quote/estimate with some sort of reply they were happy.

Oh, they did want stuff on the quote saying that if there's anything I've missed to phone as soon as possible and that they have a certain time to change their mind though. All the sort of stuff you'd put in T's and C's but the assessor I got wanted it on my estimates which sort of left little space for anything else.

 

[MBEINST]

Thanks for the feedback gents and ladies if there are any.

I had't looked at using SWA as I thought that the price would be prohibitive. However looking at the catalogue its only £1.12 per meter which is only a bit more expensive than as the T&E + Conduit, however the glands would increase this. Mechanical protection isn't a big issue since the conduit will be run at approx 4 meters high on the exterior of the property.

I have charged VAT because the prices quoted from the wholesalers is before VAT is added which I will obviously have to pay. I might be taking a bit of a liberty adding VAT onto the labour but this will cover the sundries other posts have mentioned.

Can't see any massive issue with including the labour costs. I think that £25 per hour is very reasonable and as suggested I should perhaps give myself another hour to be on the safe side.

 

[Octopus]

As part of the ELECSA Assessment the quote needs to show a break down of parts and labour....

I never have nor will. My assessor is more interested how well you decribe what you are installing!

 

[TaffyDuck]

As part of the ELECSA Assessment the quote needs to show a break down of parts and labour....

Well I`ve done 7 elecsa assessments and I can tell you they are not remotely interested in your quotes

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for the feedback gents and ladies if there are any.

I had't looked at using SWA as I thought that the price would be prohibitive. However looking at the catalogue its only £1.12 per meter which is only a bit more expensive than as the T&E + Conduit, however the glands would increase this. Mechanical protection isn't a big issue since the conduit will be run at approx 4 meters high on the exterior of the property.

I have charged VAT because the prices quoted from the wholesalers is before VAT is added which I will obviously have to pay. I might be taking a bit of a liberty adding VAT onto the labour but this will cover the sundries other posts have mentioned.

In which case you could use HiTuff.

And don't show VAT on the estimate seperately of you could get HMRC giving you a call as you are not VAT registered and therefore your estimate is a misrepresentation.

 

[Steve_P]

I wouldn't show VAT separately mate, it's a retail outlet, they'll want your VAT number if you do.

 

[MBEINST]

Thanks Murdoch

I will change the material costs to include the VAT.

 

[londonlec]

....
I have charged VAT because the prices quoted from the wholesalers is before VAT is added which I will obviously have to pay. I might be taking a bit of a liberty adding VAT onto the labour but this will cover the sundries other posts have mentioned.

One of the other lads will probably advise you (im not VAT reg), but I think its an offence to charge VAT when your not VAT reg.

Remember PVC conduit doesn't look too great after a few years of our wonderful weather

 

[john999uk]

If you are not Vat registered you can not add Vat to the customers bill! What you can do is charge the customer the price you paid for the materials. i.e. including Vat. In fact you can charge anything you like for materials. Then add on your labour fees.

If you want to charge Vat you can register. Problem is then any domestic work you do is 20% more expensive then a competitor that isn't Vat registered!!! If your Turnover above £77,000 you legally have to register for Vat!! You need to look into Vat to understand how it works.

No Vat number, no additional Vat can be charged to customer. Remember HMRC can be a very powerful enemy! Just ask Glasgow FC! Don't mess with them.

 

[Tanzy]

Well I`ve done 7 elecsa assessments and I can tell you they are not remotely interested in your quotes

My assessor wasn't that bothered I don't think but in the info before it mentioned breaking down the quote.

 

[bugsy]

Too cheap - use SWA- dont show VAT as seperate item ( they will want to claim it back ) I would photo cell and timer ( photo cell on - timer off )

 

[SKY]

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think you can use a commercial/retail install for Elecsa assessment.
I thought it had to be in a house.

 

[Steve_P]

I suppose that would depend on what you're being assessed for. If it's on commercial or purely domestic.