Green Deal & Eco Funds

[Eco Deal]

yes you need a two year minuim warranty on boilers

 

[Crusader]

Does anybody know of any companies that currently have eco finance available, one of our providers have let us down and run out of cash!

 

[SRE]

So original Green Deal quietly dies while it's proclaimed to be a success because it's now ECO?

 

[Eco Deal]

Eco funding as gone to the dogs already !

 

[SRE]

What do you mean? Allocated to all the big guys?? Have you seen the Encraft assessment of GD so far - really interesting.

 

[Greenday]

£300 pound for a boiler change and you have to provide £100 of pipe and fittings!

That's a lot of profit to the provider and none to the installer!

No thanks. I can't put a guy in a van and cover his NI fuel and holidays for that and keep up the GDI and all the admin involved.

 

[SRE]

Shameful but not unexpected. Makes my blood boil!

 

[Gavin A]

£300 pound for a boiler change and you have to provide £100 of pipe and fittings!

That's a lot of profit to the provider and none to the installer!

No thanks. I can't put a guy in a van and cover his NI fuel and holidays for that and keep up the GDI and all the admin involved.

so £465 boiler, with £300 installation fee inc parts....... now that's a real recipe for a quality boiler installation that's going to stand the test of time, and not end up with CO poisonings, condensate pipes freezing in winter, etc etc

Can't see how anyone's going to be able to powerflush the heating system for that price either, so the boiler will be gunged up immediately.

I predict lots of angry consumer articles and watchdog reports next winter about all these ECO boilers that are failing and leaving vulnerable householders with no heating in freezing conditions, and the install company is nowhere to be seen for the warranty as they went bust as soon as the eco funding ran out.

£2k is about the right price at the bottom end for a proper quality condensing boiler installation with powerflush, internal condensate drains to prevent winter freezing etc etc from a company that will still be in business to honour the warranty IMO. Maybe you could shave 20-30% off that for bulk, but not 60-70%.

disaster in the making here, people will die from the cold / CO poisoning / gas explosions as a result IMO.

 

[Greenday]

Funds available are much in excess of £2000!

If you have a EPR and refer to ECO brokerage you can work it out for yourself.

Installers won't be getting a fair share though! All geared for BG and the like.

 

[Gavin A]

Funds available are much in excess of £2000!

If you have a EPR and refer to ECO brokerage you can work it out for yourself.

no idea what any of that is, so I assume I can't, or at least can't be bothered.

Installers won't be getting a fair share though! All geared for BG and the like.

yeah, I saw that one coming.

 

[sedgy34]

Interesting

 

[sedgy34]

So greendeal finance is almost available the solar industry will be kick started again won't it

 

[SRE]

With the hikes due in August? I can't see it - can you?

 

[sedgy34]

I sure can mate solar will be just 1 of 3,4,5 different measures on a green deal plan

 

[TedM]

no idea what any of that is, so I assume I can't, or at least can't be bothered.

The EPR tells you how much CO2 is (supposed) to be saved by a new boiler.

GD Brokerage tells you how much an amount of CO2 savings is priced at.

Multiply one by the other to get the GD ECO value of the boiler replacement.

 

[SRE]

Well I certainly hope it does, you've worked hard at it for long enough

 

[sedgy34]

Trouble is where are the greendeal customers lol are they Eco customers in disguise

 

[Greenday]

That's nearly right. Boilers are priced at pounds saving over life of boiler and then auctioned at pence in the pound.

The providers are trying to keep all the real profit but its a risk if they can't fulfil their commitment to brokerage. So installers hang fire especially if you can deliver big numbers!

We all need to make a living and low prices to installers will just deliver crap jobs!

 

[sedgy34]

The providers have had some meetings and I'm assuming have decided together to screw the installer a bit more

 

[Greenday]

I'm talking about ECO! Plenty of enquiries for Green Deal shame system isn't working!

BG obviously not interested whilst they are emptying the ECO pot!

Suspect there will be lots of installer casualties! Only for the brave or stupid!

 

[Eco Deal]

If your entering the market now forget eco funding for boilers your too late this year. its all given out. Providers all have different business models some pay p/£ others set rates...... everybody as setup small networks and coming in now will be hard I am so glad I took the gamble while all you guys where taking the P ...... I think green deal is the way forward and it will bring solar back but along side say EWI and other measures all rolled into the same green deal plan...... Also there is talk you council tax will go off your EPC. The EPC is the new king of construction........ good times are coming for us fingers crossed I even hand my RECC audit in today ready for solar

 

[Gavin A]

So greendeal finance is almost available the solar industry will be kick started again won't it

if it kick starts solar the same way it's kick started every other measure, I can't wait for that extra couple of jobs to share between the industry nationwide.

We've kick started it ourselves anyway.

 

[Gavin A]

If your entering the market now forget eco funding for boilers your too late this year. its all given out. Providers all have different business models some pay p/£ others set rates...... everybody as setup small networks and coming in now will be hard I am so glad I took the gamble while all you guys where taking the P**s ...... I think green deal is the way forward and it will bring solar back but along side say EWI and other measures all rolled into the same green deal plan...... Also there is talk you council tax will go off your EPC. The EPC is the new king of construction........ good times are coming for us fingers crossed I even hand my RECC audit in today ready for solar

Have you actually had any green deal funded installs (of any technology) carried out through to the installers being paid?

I really just don't see it myself, all I see is an incredibly complex, time consuming, relatively high interest finance plan albeit with lots of government bribes that are 99% going to none green deal funded new boiler installs by some odd quirk of the system.

Not going to knock back eco funding for solar in electrically heated properties if it were available to help persuade housing associations etc to do projects, but I'm guessing it'd be a hell of a lot of work with every possibility the funding would suddenly dry up just at the point the project was about to get green lighted or something.

 

[SolarCity]

EPC. The EPC is the new king of construction........ good times are coming for us fingers crossed

I agree with that. Those that took the leap for the Green Deal should be in a good position for whatever scheme comes next even if the Green Deal fails.

 

[TedM]

That's nearly right. Boilers are priced at pounds saving over life of boiler and then auctioned at pence in the pound.

The providers are trying to keep all the real profit but its a risk if they can't fulfil their commitment to brokerage. So installers hang fire especially if you can deliver big numbers!

We all need to make a living and low prices to installers will just deliver crap jobs!

The Affordable Warmth part of ECO is brokered at £/tonne of CO2 saving. Was £125/tonne in April but now fallen to £95/tonne. (The brokerage is how an 'independant' GDP gets funds from an energy supplier but will not apply to a Big6er who is both, so they will have other means of deciding price.) Yes, other parts of ECO are priced differently.

There are plenty of rumours (on LinkedIn) of bad practices around ECO that are being investigated by Gemserv. Expect more bad publicity for GD.

I also see that in Germany their equivalent of the GD is financed at 1% and is a big success.

 

[Worcester]

I think green deal is the way forward

I take it that you mean it is the way forward for your particular business model.

There is now and will continue to be a substantial market for renewable technology installers WITHOUT the need for the Green Deal or ECO.

If you like 'bashing' lots of properties for low margins, then fine, go with the Green Deal certified, I don't see it though as the BEST business model for smaller businesses

Bearing in mind the governments problem with the UK's ageing housing stock, and that a lot of that is either Housing Association or Privately tennanted accomodation I still see the Grren Deal as primarily a replacement for CERT (Carbon Emissions Reduction Target) and CESP (Community Energy Saving Programme) and the big winners in this will be as before the big6 and large nationals like Carillion, Mark Group, DGI etc

The Government's spin machine has the ability to publicise the £1.3 billion a year ECO funds as Green Deal successes.

What I do see, is a lot more awareness of energy saving / energy cost reduction, and the good thing is most of those customers want to do it themselves as they don't trust the goverment to see the scheme through lomg term, and don;t see a short term win aka 'What's in it for me'.

With over 86% of the UK's housing stock worse than an EPC of D (the governments own figures) they would have a riot bigger than the poll tax on their hands if they tried to link that to your council tax..

What will happen when the ECO obligation runs out in 2015, is uncertain yet, - whatever happens it's going to be a ball

 

[The Solar King]

I also see that in Germany their equivalent of the GD is financed at 1% and is a big success.

If only. It is just a pity we had to have a so called market solution where only big business could get their snouts in the trough. We should have had a system of central finance provision at 1% with customers able to go to any GD installer without all the rubbish of GDPs and the like. They can give money at 1% or less to their friends in the banks to fund first time buyers so helping their friends in the large construction sector but not to do something that would have given an instant and immediate stimulus by getting an army of trades people rushed off their feet. There would be no waiting for trickle down, it would be an instant multiplier effect in the economy.

The Government keeps on talking about wanting to finance 'shovel ready' projects to get the economy moving (HS2 for instance). GD could be going like a fair but not with the stupidity currently surrounding it.

 

[Greenday]

The Affordable Warmth part of ECO is brokered at £/tonne of CO2 saving. Was £125/tonne in April but now fallen to £95/tonne. (The brokerage is how an 'independant' GDP gets funds from an energy supplier but will not apply to a Big6er who is both, so they will have other means of deciding price.) Yes, other parts of ECO are priced differently.

There are plenty of rumours (on LinkedIn) of bad practices around ECO that are being investigated by Gemserv. Expect more bad publicity for GD.

I also see that in Germany their equivalent of the GD is financed at 1% and is a big success.

As far as Im aware ECO is split 3 ways

CERO- Carbon Emissions Reduction Obligation---Basically hard to treat cavity and external wall insulation------Priced in £/tCO2

CSCO-Carbon Saving Community Obligation--Basically focus is low income and rural communities fro insulation measures---priced in £/tCO2

HHRCO (used to be affordable warmth)--Home Heating Cost Reduction Obligation--- Basically heating measures for the fuel poor---priced in pence in the pound

Hope this is right!

 

[TedM]

Yes, I'm confused by the fact that ECO brokerage still uses the terms "Affordable Warmth" and "Carbon Saving Obligation" - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...le/210605/ECO_Brokerage_eAuction13_020713.pdf
It is the CSO that is £/tonne CO2.

 

[SolarCity]

Some posts moved to Sun Lounge

 

[Gavin A]

Some posts moved to Sun Lounge

unless I'm missing something, you seem to have actually deleted them.

 

[sedgy34]

I think Ecodeal responded to another solar savings winedup and he reacted the post was removed I think

 

[solarsavings]

What are you talking about?

 

[SolarCity]

unless I'm missing something, you seem to have actually deleted them.

I moved them and the deleted them on Eco Deal's request.

 

[solarsavings]

Would the posts about ploughcroft have been removed if Chris hopkins had asked that they be deleted.

 

[SolarCity]

If you can want to start a new thread in the Sun Lounge about the subject then feel free to do so.

 

[Greenday]

How do you get access to the sun lounge? Tried several times and have had no response

 

[Megavolt]

So what's happening with Eco and the green deal now. Has the green deal got going yet.

 

[Gavin A]

So what's happening with Eco and the green deal now. Has the green deal got going yet.

think green deal is into double figures now nationally, so obviously is a rip roaring success.

Eco.... just been hearing something pretty bad today about a major external wall insulation project where the company involved is now trying to get a few thousand extra off the owners per building as the ECO funding isn't high enough to cover the costs.... that and some very dodgy goings on with a shady firm of ECO funded gas fitters apparently going around not paying contractors and suppliers for months on end due to the 90 day payment terms they're getting from ECO funders, and the way this means they're getting one gas fitter after another to work for them for a month til they realise they're not getting paid, then move on to the next.... shambles IMO.

 

[solarsavings]

That's not good news Gavin a lot of the guys on the gas forum I go on are installing as many as 5 boilers a week and I doubt many could could wait 90 days for payment.