Installed Thermodynamic System - 2 year test results

[MCS Renewables]

A four panel solar thermodynamic system in Poole, Dorset had its two year birthday earlier today.

It is mounted on a solar wholesalers industrial unit and provides hot water and so called heating to six office radiators.
It cost £10K to install and replaced a gas boiler. It was supposed to be an example system or sales aid.

We have signed statements from the companies representatives, and emails about performance and photographs of everything including electricity meter.

All of which we are labelling proof .....

We can now see why the manufacturers have failed to have the equipment independently tested within the past four years and why the MCS have removed any certification from the product.

info and pictures here :-

Thermodynamic system - Renewable Rescue

 

[solarsavings]

No one in their right mind should be replacing a gas fired heating system with thermodynamics or a heat pump.

Why the gledhill buffer when it's not needed on a system of that size. What type/size is it? looks about 180l. Why are the refrigerant lines not clipped. Why is circulating pump incorrectly mounted. Why has the filling loop be left attached. What is the item highlighted in the attached clip. How is the system controlled?

It's clearly a **** poor design and installation.

 

[MCS Renewables]

Just to be absolutely clear we did not have anything to do with the installation as we do not fit this technology.

If you write a list of what is wrong I will forward it to the company.

 

[Gavin A]

hmm... radiators you say?

what temperature are they running the rads at, probably 55deg, in which case wouldn't you get the same sort of result with an ASHP running rads at that temperature?

also, as a comparison what were the annual gas bills previously?

 

[MCS Renewables]

In all fairness you probably would get the same sort of running costs with an ASHP .

However you would also get 7.3 pence back per kw hour in Renewable Heat Incentive monies for seven years .

Lets say £600 a year for 7 years so that`s a repayment of £4200 in tax free index linked payments,
compared with a big fat zero with the thermodynamic system.

I will enquire about gas bills and what the highlighted "gizmo" is and update post as soon as I can.

 

[jason121]

No one in their right mind should be replacing a gas fired heating system with thermodynamics or a heat pump.

Why the gledhill buffer when it's not needed on a system of that size. What type/size is it? looks about 180l. Why are the refrigerant lines not clipped. Why is circulating pump incorrectly mounted. Why has the filling loop be left attached. What is the item highlighted in the attached clip. How is the system controlled?

It's clearly a **** poor design and installation.
View attachment 22332

I don't think that is a buffer. Is it not the hot water cylinder ?

 

[wersolaruk]

yes it looks like a mono block system linked in with a 250 ltd hot water tank, with a 15 ltr expansion tank, also looks as thought there is a flow and return pump just next to the expansion vessel. These system really are not central heating, hot water is the only option in this country.

 

[solarsavings]

Jason if you look closely you will see it's being used as a buffer. It is also the reason I asked what type/size it is.

 

[MCS Renewables]

The highlighted unit is the base for a remote room stat.

 

[wersolaruk]

the room stat must pull in the two pumps to send heat up to the rads?

 

[wersolaruk]

one of them is a zone valve, would be interested to see how they have configured this up to work, plus isn't the flow temperature of these 45-55 degrees? if so were the rads correctly sized. Has the flow rate been correctly measured and adjusted on the pump, I also had a look around this renewable rescue site, enphase is apparently more efficient than solar edge, hhhhmmm show me the data

 

[solarsavings]

The tank is a 210l gledhill stainless lite buffer store Stainless Lite Buffer Stores | Gledhill Buffer Stores

Having checked the energie website it seems that the system should not be installed with a buffer (I wasn't surprised to find that)


We don't know the area being heated. We don't know the construction type of the building so we don't know the heatloss either.

What we do know. The system has not been installed according to the manufacturers instruction/design. It certainly hasn't been installed to an acceptable standard with regards to the cylinder, pipework, pumps, filling loop, refrigeration lines, roof mounting/work.

I think the clear message is don't have an thermodynamic system installed by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. Perhaps you should change the bold tag line on your website to reflect that message as you have with the other technologies.

 

[wersolaruk]

Plus also this is a mono block system, so for just hot water usage, the electricity consumption should not be as enormous. It must have a number of compressors, were as the hot water system only has one. I have been told to keep away from the central heating side of things. As for hot water I think this technology is great. installing one tomorrow

 

[Ian-LS]

Isn't this just a case of a dodgy installation. We'd need a case study where TD panels have been correctly installed to manufacturers recommendations etc and not for a rip off price of £10,000.

 

[MCS Renewables]

This installation was undertaken by Energie themselves using labour they sourced, as this was going to be one of their UK main distribution resellers.

You can only assume that they are or were happy with the installation standards and set up.

The only components are in the photographs except the six radiators.

What we all need is for the manufacturers to get the equipment independently tested and MCS approved so that we all know its not the "emperors new clothes".

No problem with you calling it a dodgy installation, its nothing to do with us and as the manufacturers were heavily involved, it should be right.

At least this one has had a usage meter fitted from day one, so nit picking aside, this is the first bit of real evidence about this technology we have come across.

However there are bound to be some more soon ..... rip off products and installations are like buses

 

[Gavin A]

At least this one has had a usage meter fitted from day one, so nit picking aside, this is the first bit of real evidence about this technology we have come across.

other than the customer reported consumption data in the threads you linked to on the previous thread on this?

It's not nit picking to query the temperatures the system was being run at, or another question would be whether there is a back up immersion installed and if that was being used.... if you wanted to use this as a case study, farnkly you've done a pretty bad job of obtaining the relevant data needed to tell us anything useful tbh.

 

[Worcester]

I reckon the highlighted box is a wireless receiver for tje heating system - it's wired to the pump and zone valve.

Definitely configured as a buffer.

Why can I see the inner insulation of the meter tails? Our NICEIC man would have a fit over that