P

Paul.M

The warehouse manager asked me to make up a 50 meter extension lead for his pressure jet wash machine to be used to clean the path leading to the showroom entrance, car park and the lorries. The pressure washer will use a max of 13A and will be plugged into a Blue 230V commando outlet which is protected by a 16A MCB, commando socket is wired in 4mm singles in galv conduit about 4m from the DB so volt drop/cable size/MCB is not a problem and it is on its own circuit. (more info than what is needed but I'm painting a picture for you lol).


Q:- What type of cable would you used and why?

A:- 3183Y Blue Arctic cable, 3 core PVC. A 3 core mains cable with special core insulation / sheath which allows the cable to remain flexible at temperatures as low as -20°C. Ideal for use with tools or equipment used outdoors or in a cold environment.
Current Rating: 25 Amps
Conductor Flexible annealed copper
Insulation: Arctic grade PVC
Sheath: Arctic grade PVC


Q:- What CSA of cable would you use and why?

A:- 2.5mm due to the machines current requirement (start up current about 10A, running current less than 5A). Over a distance of 50m we need to think about Volt Drop (VD) and disconnection times of the OCP (MCB/RCBO etc). VD for this type and size of cable is mV/A/M: 19. I did not want to go into too much detail on this due to other things that effect the calculations that will be too much for some trainees, Never intended this to be a lecture, just a bit of fun away from normal collage questions and the like.

Q:- Is it necessary to provide rcd/rcbo protection in this situation?

A:- In a nutshell NO!!!

BS7671 Reg 411.3.3 states:- An exception to (i) is permitted for:-
(a) socket-outlets for the use under the supervision of a skilled or instructed persons, e.g. in some commercial or industrial locations, or

(b) a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment.

Also due to this being a pressure washer with a good start up current Reg 314.1 (iv) comes into play:-

Every installation shall be divided into circuits, as necessary, to:
(iv) reduce the possibility of unwanted tripping of RCDs due to excessive protective conductor currents produced by equipment in normal operation.


Of course we would want it on an RCD/RCBO due to this being for out door use + water! You have to look at the situation and do a risk assessment. Look at the proposed use of the socket and extension lead, who is going to use it, what for and where? Do you think it is safe and could you stand up in a Court of Law to defend yourself if anything went wrong?

The warehouse manager knows what he is doing and I have instructed him about the use of the socket outlet and the extension lead. Check the lead for any damage before use. Check both plug and socket for damage. Only use when the weather conditions are suitable etc.




Now that was a long answer to a short question lol. Need to think up another one.
 
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Nice one Paul, glad to see I was thinking on the right lines.

Look forward to the next question :smile:
 
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You trainees are so lucky to have this guy on your team.... i actually think he should have a percentage of your wages when you qualify
 
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Trust me, the next one will be better thought out. All the PM's etc...... You guys are really on the ball. Going to have another look at each PM later and make a few comments on here (only positive comments). I need to think about this and ask for your input on how to run this type of thread that suits all of us.
 
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(In response to dazza's post) Nah, we'll pay back the karma by helping the next generation... :-)

Thanks for your answer, Paul. :)
 
(In response to dazza's post) Nah, we'll pay back the karma by helping the next generation... :-)

Thanks for your answer, Paul. :)

That is why i help people on here and also in the real world. Just giving a bit of a hand to people that are now in the same boat as myself years ago. I also receive help from my elders which is progressing my future very nicely. You will never stop learning LOL.


PS Your PM answers were very in-depth and one of the best so to say. You did not get all the question correct but, bloody hell did you have a go at it. Almost there mate, keep thinking the way you are and you will do great :smile:
 
Out of interest regarding cable selection what other things would of affected the calculations. Other than resistance and volt drop? :smile:
 
Out of interest regarding cable selection what other things would of affected the calculations. Other than resistance and volt drop? :smile:

Nothing, what I touched upon is something I dont want to talk about on the trainee forum. It would take you away from the learning you are all doing which is more important. Stick to cable selection and you wont go wrong.
 
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Hands up....I got the rcd/rbo question wrong....bad Tazz

Tazz lets face it, it should be on an RCD/RCBO but the regs state that it is acceptable.

Never done it in a domestic install and never will.
 
Wow, I massively under estimated the detail you were after. Also an epic fail with my answers! Back to the books for me I think! Will definitely do better on question number two.
 
Wow, I massively under estimated the detail you were after. Also an epic fail with my answers! Back to the books for me I think! Will definitely do better on question number two.

I massively under estimated the amount of PM's, the detailed and researched answers, wow. Not only impressed but I had to step my game up a bit, you lot caught me off guard! I only meant this to be a bit of fun with quick answers. I received some very detailed answers and that shows me your working hard to become an Electrician. Well done to everyone, honestly :smile:

No such as "fail" on these questions. No one is judging you, only the "question master" can see your PM's and myself or any other Mentor that posts up a question will never belittle a trainee in this section. Ok maybe a little bit of banter :wink: All we want is for you lot to "have a go". You are all at different levels and may not know certain parts of the electrical world that we are talking about, a few members have said that in their PM's, but all of them had a go at the things they have not been shown yet. Good for the people that did, I'm impressed.

OK Jimmy, I''m going to have another look at your answer now. Cant remember every ones PM's PLUS the amount of stuff I've had to look at and learn from becoming a Mod for this section over the past few days, I'll put it this way:- I've been very, very busy. Need to learn the computer systems so I can be the best Mod that I can. The better I become = the more I can achieve.
 
@ Jimmyray..... I've just had a look at your answer and although it did not meet the answers I posted, You are NOT wrong (kind of)?

I wont post up your answer, lets put it this way:-

Cable type would not be "appropriate" for what it would be used for (just a bit over the top, nothing more). But I know where your coming from. And your answer is well within the regs.

Cable CSA... again a bit OTT but well within the regs so no worries there, just costs more.

RCD. As already said, in this case we dont need one BUT I would have liked to install an RCBO.

No wrong answers with regards to the regs, you just went a bit over kill. Just like saying you drive at 15mph in a 30mph zone. Not breaking any laws, playing it very safe, but you would never do it would you??? No, I thought so lol.

Not an epic fail Jimmy
 

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