UK Landlord Trying to Deduct Deposit for Unnecessary Electrician Test.

[Rockingit]

There is no legal requirement to have an EICR completed upon a change of tenancy/occupation, but there are some recommendations to do so.

As per my post above, I think this is a point worthy of debate.

As we all know, BS7671 isn't a statutory instrument, so therefore any and all of it can be considered 'advisory' - as such, the advice (GN3) is upon change of tenancy. However - we are also informed by EAWR89 that BS7671 is considered ACOP to be adhered to. It therefore follows that EAWR89 - which is obviously statute - implies a requirement to inspect as per 652.x and GN3..... which leads us back to change of tenancy. The 2020 Act simply adds another layer of protection by adding in the five year rule over the top and more importantly does also specify "..is inspected and tested...before the tenancy commences in relation to a new specified tenancy.."

Directly from the Act: ( The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020 - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/312/regulation/3/made )
Duties of private landlords in relation to electrical installations

3.—(1) A private landlord(1) who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must—

a)ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(2) are occupied under a specified tenancy;​

(b)ensure every electrical installation in the residential premises is inspected and tested at regular intervals by a qualified person; and​

(c)ensure the first inspection and testing is carried out—​

(i)before the tenancy commences in relation to a new specified tenancy; or​

(ii)by 1st April 2021 in relation to an existing specified tenancy.​

(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)(b) “at regular intervals” means—

(a)at intervals of no more than 5 years; or​

(b)where the most recent report under sub-paragraph (3)(a) requires such inspection and testing to be at intervals of less than 5 years, at the intervals specified in that report.​

 

[Julie.]

As per my post above, I think this is a point worthy of debate.

As we all know, BS7671 isn't a statutory instrument, so therefore any and all of it can be considered 'advisory' - as such, the advice (GN3) is upon change of tenancy. However - we are also informed by EAWR89 that BS7671 is considered ACOP to be adhered to. It therefore follows that EAWR89 - which is obviously statute - implies a requirement to inspect as per 652.x and GN3..... which leads us back to change of tenancy. The 2020 Act simply adds another layer of protection by adding in the five year rule over the top and more importantly does also specify "..is inspected and tested...before the tenancy commences in relation to a new specified tenancy.."

Directly from the Act: ( The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020 - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/312/regulation/3/made )
Duties of private landlords in relation to electrical installations

3.—(1) A private landlord(1) who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must—

a)ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(2) are occupied under a specified tenancy;​

(b)ensure every electrical installation in the residential premises is inspected and tested at regular intervals by a qualified person; and​

(c)ensure the first inspection and testing is carried out—​

(i)before the tenancy commences in relation to a new specified tenancy; or​

(ii)by 1st April 2021 in relation to an existing specified tenancy.​

(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)(b) “at regular intervals” means—

(a)at intervals of no more than 5 years; or​

(b)where the most recent report under sub-paragraph (3)(a) requires such inspection and testing to be at intervals of less than 5 years, at the intervals specified in that report.​

You should note, the "New tenancy" only refers to the FIRST tenancy (3.1c above)

Basically upon the introduction of the law:

3.1ci says the first inspection must be carried out before the tenancy (if not already a tenant)
3.1cii says the first inspection must be carried out before 1st April 2021 (if a tenant already)

From the law:

"(c)ensure the FIRST inspection and testing is carried out—

(i)before the tenancy commences in relation to a new specified tenancy; or

(ii)by 1st April 2021 in relation to an existing specified tenancy."
​

There is no legal requirement for an EICR upon subsequent changes of tenancy/occupancy.


Also check out 652.1 in GN3 it states that the recommendations in table 3.2 are merely recommendations and are NOT legal requirements.

It may make sense, but neither BS7671, nor GN3, nor "The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020" do not mandate an EICR upon a new tenancy (Other than for the FIRST tenancy)

 

[LukeD]

If she is asking you to pay for it ..agree and have it done on your terms and in your name and you OWN the EICR . Therefore she cannot use it for the next tenant let her know this

 

[Rockingit]

You should note, the "New tenancy" only refers to the FIRST tenancy (3.1c above)

Basically upon the introduction of the law:

3.1ci says the first inspection must be carried out before the tenancy (if not already a tenant)
3.1cii says the first inspection must be carried out before 1st April 2021 (if a tenant already)

From the law:





There is no legal requirement for an EICR upon subsequent changes of tenancy/occupancy.


Also check out 652.1 in GN3 it states that the recommendations in table 3.2 are merely recommendations and are NOT legal requirements.

It may make sense, but neither BS7671, nor GN3, nor "The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020" do not mandate an EICR upon a new tenancy (Other than for the FIRST tenancy)

We may have to agree to disagree on this. The reference to a first inspection is simply to acknowledge that others may follow afterwards (at the five year or less period) for any new [continuing] tenancy.

 

[hasel5]

You should of swapped the lights back before you moved out TBH then no-one would of known and you say you are qualified so no big task

 

[DPG]

You should of swapped the lights back before you moved out TBH then no-one would of known and you say you are qualified so no big task

Good post. Apart from the 'of's

 

[Wingo123]

You should of swapped the lights back before you moved out TBH then no-one would of known and you say you are qualified so no big task

To be honest, I wish I had thought of it. We've never rented before, so didn't think it would be a problem. I thought I was doing them a favour, as you typically wouldn't have that kind of light fitting in a living room.

I've disputed the fees with TDS now, so I will provide TDS with a minor works test certificate. I'm still disputing other fees as they're trying to charge us £120 for gardening (cutting the grass). It wasn't the season to cut the grass, and it wasn't cut when we moved in anyway lol

 

[davesparks]

We've never rented before, so didn't think it would be a problem.

The first thing you do when you move in to a rented property should be to take detailed, time stamped, pictures of everything. Check through the inventory and check in report thoroughly and make sure any inaccuracies are fixed.

Then at the end of the tenancy return the property exactly as it was when you moved in. They will take every possible opportunity to deduct money from your deposit for even the most trivial things.

Arrange for the check out inspection to happen on the last day of the tenancy so that they can't stop you from being present for it.

When I left the first house I rented they made a deduction from my deposit to repair a damaged door frame. The door frame had been damaged by the landlord's contractor who replaced the cooker when it broke and like an idiot I told the landlord about it but didn't take any pictures. So when I contested the deduction from my deposit the landlord said they had repaired the damage caused by their contractor (they hadn't) and the damage they were charging for was other damage caused by me.

It wasn't the season to cut the grass, and it wasn't cut when we moved in anyway lol

Unless you can prove absolutely and irrefutably that the grass is exactly the length it was when you moved in then you'll probably lose that one. And even then your tenancy agreement probably states that you must cut the grass at the end of the tenancy.

 

[oscar21]

They are obviously trying to scam you and will probably get away with it, so, as you are an electrician create some faults that only a magician could find that will show up on the EICR they are about to have done. You could then charge them £300 for info on how to fix it.

 

[LukeD]

The rent deposit schemes are very "Pro" tenant . And tend to always believe a tenant more than a landlord . With smart phones been almost a common item there is not excuse not to be able to form a perfect paper trail for any issues. Based on the Damaged door frame mentioned... I would demand screen shots that are time/date coded to show landlords communication with the trade person , the invoice and prove of payment . And the deposit scheme should want the same ?/

 

[Brian Taylor]

Yes, they are trying to charge me £300+ for a new EICR as I swapped over 2 lights. I agree with you. It seems like they are trying to get the money to get it done now instead of having to pay themselves next year.

Would a Minor Works certificate not be in order.....only one page just related to the circuit in question...hence a lot less money?

 

[Simon47]

As a landlord myself, and having family members who rent, I see both sides.

With my landlord hat on, I would be "greatly annoyed" if I found that a tenant had changed light fittings without even asking first. If they asked, I would probably offer to do it for them - and unless there was something particularly nuisanceworthy involved I probably wouldn't charge. I've certainly put things like blinds up for tenants in the past - apart from trying to be a good landlord, it means I can consider things like what holes will be left when they take them down as they leave.
And as mentioned above, if they've done something I have noticed, what might they have done that I can't see without doing a full inspection & test ?
If they want to put up some monstrosity that would put off anyone looking to rent in future then I'd factor in the need to remove it and replace with standard at the end of tenancy.

I've actually only made one deduction from a deposit in over 20 years - and the tenant volunteered that as he'd broken the fridge through over-enthusiastic attempts to de-ice it. We settled on 1/2 the cost of a replacement - it wasn't a new fridge, and he'd been a good tenant.

Also with my landlord hat on, I find it "greatly annoying" to read to sort of stories that result in us all being tarred with the same brush and get further regulations piled on.
And that includes seeing how some family members get treated. I'm really tempted to ask to see the EICR for one house, because I know for a fact it can't have a genuine satisfactory one. But then, they aren't ready to move so I don't want to rock the boat. They also have to put up with an agent that seemingly does the minimum it can get away with - and that includes not repairing a roof leak until threats of calling in the council are made. But we don't know how much of that is the agent and how much is the landlord - I am tempted to call on the landlord and see whether they are aware of the problems, or whether the agent is just not telling them.


As to the "on change of occupancy" bit. I do a visual inspection, and since I do all my own maintenance and an autistic attention to details, I think that's sufficient in-between the 5 yearly EICRs.