Warehouse Job

[Dave 85]

Hi lads
Just looked at wiring a warehouse about 20m by 20m and thought I'd get some opinions on a few things.
I've done a bit of industrial but am 95% domestic. (Not domesticated though)

Its an empty industrial unit at the mo with just a new 3phase board and nothing else. Its gonna be used as a workshop for building luxury log cabins.
So heres what im thinking:
PVC conduit run horizontaly a meter off the ground to feed all the sockets. Is this adequate you reckon? I don't do steel so its that or SWA
6 Metal Halide 250w lights, wired in SWA-Are these the best type of light? is 6 enough?
RCBO's on the sockets-Im tempted not to bother, what do u guys think?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

 

[grimysparks80]

Id go for RCBOs. you dont want a fault on one circuit shutting down others.

 

[Dan the spark]

If it's going to be used for making log cabins are they not going to have any joinery machinery? These will probably be 3 phase and need their own supplies?

 

[cook1e]

I would trunk around and drop down, leaves cabling capacity for the future, the lights may be ott depending on other factors, height being one

Martin

 

[Dave 85]

If it's going to be used for making log cabins are they not going to have any joinery machinery? These will probably be 3 phase and need their own supplies?

Yes there is obviously a fair possibility of this but the client hasn't mentioned it yet, we only had a breif discussion.

 

[polo1]

Sorry if it's stating the obvious, but you really need to speak to the customer to identify what types of equipment they plan to use, that will start to allow you to design what's required (does your PL insurance cover design?). Knowing what machinery is going to be used will also help on the lighting design.

Are you also being asked to provide EM lighting and fire alarm, again PL insurance cover?

Hope that's a starter for 10!
Regards.

 

[Dan the spark]

I'd go for the same option as cook1e, trunk round high level and tube drops down to each point. Looks a pukka job as well

 

[mackers]

most wholesalers will do you a lighting design if you give them athe relivant measurements and what its used for!
met halide better than sons but the new type energyefficent low- bay modulars are alot better but pricey.

also check how many 3 ph circuits the want may be better to run 2x2 galv trunking if theres alot of circuits.

better to get a floor plan off the company telling you what they actually need.

 

[Short Circuit]

Dave, i do these size units all the time - with 20 x 20 i do three rows of three lights. I know you say you dont do metal, but, for the lights.. go up and over the building with trunking, pipe along to the lights from the trunking with pvc pipe using thro boxes etc, and plug in ceilling roses to the lights. This makes it much easier than SWA to wire to the switches etc. For the sockets, depending on how many you need, the plastic pipe or swa will be ok, but like others have said - find out what the client is going to instal later - may be better to run trunking around for the future sockets.

 

[Dave 85]

Thanks for the help lads, from the sounds of it theres only gonna be one bit of hard wired 3 phase machinery but not had a proper discusion really. The prob with metal truning is that the vertical steels protude from the walls about a foot right up to the ceiling, every 6 metres all the way round. So getting past them would be a nightmare. Think this ones gonna have a tight budget so I'm not too concerned about future proofing.

 

[supasparxs]

First of all check with the customer what kind of plant will be needed around the unit?

will they require compressed air, 110v, 240v, 415v supplies?

What height is the unit?

Id go for RCBOs. you dont want a fault on one circuit shutting down others.

Why?

surface containment, (preferably steel trunking) and use MCB's

 

[jase]

Definatly would run Galv trunking around for the sockets, easy to add more in future, also use metal clad sockets, and there would be no need for RCBO's, also i would go with what polo said as you will be wanting to spread things out across the 3 phases

 

[plugsandsparks]

Doing a warehouse at the moment, off the top 6 lights does not sound enough, you are likely to get bright and dark spots and shadows from HQIs. Think the optimum height for low bays are around 6M but i would check with the wholesaler and get the specs out for the lights, i.e. optimum height and spread, if the walls are painted white that will help. I am doing mine in fluorescent at 3.5M , client prefers it, they are a machine shop. As for wiring, i tend to mix between nice shiny galvo trunking and SWA with some SY for machines, it all depends on the final look, as you said you have some obstacles. Sometimes i go right up and across the roof if it will look naff, routing around colomns and the like. As for sockets i would run minimum of two radials on RCBOs C20 breakers. Easy with SWA or drop down from trunking as mentioned. Would also check to see if they are using any 110V stuff as they may need a trany and some yellow sockets for those.
Basically you start with all the load devices, get everything out of them possible about what they intend to use and then work backwards to the board and hopefully the supply is big enough
Oh and don't forget HQIs will need C breakers.
Oh and what about heating, i am using some radiant jobbies from dimplex

 

[JD6400]

Doing a warehouse at the moment, off the top 6 lights does not sound enough, you are likely to get bright and dark spots and shadows from HQIs. Think the optimum height for low bays are around 6M but i would check with the wholesaler and get the specs out for the lights, i.e. optimum height and spread, if the walls are painted white that will help. I am doing mine in fluorescent at 3.5M , client prefers it, they are a machine shop. As for wiring, i tend to mix between nice shiny galvo trunking and SWA with some SY for machines, it all depends on the final look, as you said you have some obstacles. Sometimes i go right up and across the roof if it will look naff, routing around colomns and the like. As for sockets i would run minimum of two radials on RCBOs C20 breakers. Easy with SWA or drop down from trunking as mentioned. Would also check to see if they are using any 110V stuff as they may need a trany and some yellow sockets for those.
Basically you start with all the load devices, get everything out of them possible about what they intend to use and then work backwards to the board and hopefully the supply is big enough

We swear by HF Anti corrosive 6ft twins run with Trifos daylights , I am sure you will already know but for those that do not make sure you run your fluorescents across at least two phases or just use HF fittings to stop the stroboscopic effect .

 

[Engineer54]

Fabrication workshop, dealing (and moving around) with heavy log's!! PVC conduit just isn't up to the job as far as mechanical protection is concerned. It NEEDS galvanised conduit, preferably dropped from suitably sized metal trunking that runs around the walls at a suitably high enough level out of harms way....

Don't have much of a problem with using PVC conduit on the roof lighting layout, but switch drops should also be made in galvanised conduit. As already mentioned all switches and general purpose socket outlets etc, should be of the metal clad type. 3ph outlets can if intelligently positioned, be of the high impact plastic variety....

This really should be looked at, as an industrial installation rather than a commercial one. They will be using some pretty large machinery that can cope with long lengths of raw logs etc....

 

[plugsandsparks]

We swear by HF Anti corrosive 6ft twins run with Trifos daylights , I am sure you will already know but for those that do not make sure you run your fluorescents across at least two phases or just use HF fittings to stop the stroboscopic effect .

Good point, as HF are now so cheap, i only fit HF which come with tri-phos tubes around 4000K which is nice and bright. Really no point fitting the old type anymore they look really bad in comparison. Although, and i may be just unlucky with supply but i am reliably getting 1% failure rate of new 4000K tubes from Osram mainly

 

[Engineer54]

Good point, as HF are now so cheap, i only fit HF which come with tri-phos tubes around 4000K which is nice and bright. Really no point fitting the old type anymore they look really bad in comparison. Although, and i may be just unlucky with supply but i am reliably getting 1% failure rate of new 4000K tubes from Osram mainly

All our Flu fittings are now HF, but in the hospitals generally 6500K tubes. One thing worth mentioning here the HF ballasts have no-where near the longevity/reliability of the older type ballasts... Horses for courses in many respects mind...

It's only when you are installing many thousands of the things, that you get to see/recognise some of the disadvantages of new type equipment. You'll be surprised just how many units have to be returned to the suppliers, RCD devices (all types) is a case in question that springs to mind in this respect!! lol!!!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I have been doing a EICR in an ex joinery building, okay the previous tenants had been in there a long time, you really need to consider the lighting you fit has the correct IP rating for the saw dust that will be created.

No doubt although they are big log cabins being built there will be a lot of fine saw dust if they carry out sanding. 5 meters up the ceiling and lights are covered in saw dust at the place I am at.

 

[plugsandsparks]

All our Flu fittings are now HF, but in the hospitals generally 6500K tubes. One thing worth mentioning here the HF ballasts have no-where near the longevity/reliability of the older type ballasts... Horses for courses in many respects mind...

It's only when you are installing many thousands of the things, that you get to see/recognise some of the disadvantages of new type equipment. You'll be surprised just how many units have to be returned to the suppliers, RCD devices (all types) is a case in question that springs to mind in this respect!! lol!!!

Actually you have got me thinking, have never fitted daylight tubes , i.e. over 4000K can you actually fit 6500K tubes into a HF fitting that normally comes with 4000K, cos i might try them for this machine shop, guess i will have alot of spare tubes as i need 20X 6ft doubles - thx

 

[brooky25]

Use high impact conduit if its plastic for the sockets.

 

[alarm man]

Thanks for the help lads, from the sounds of it theres only gonna be one bit of hard wired 3 phase machinery but not had a proper discusion really. The prob with metal truning is that the vertical steels protude from the walls about a foot right up to the ceiling, every 6 metres all the way round. So getting past them would be a nightmare. Think this ones gonna have a tight budget so I'm not too concerned about future proofing.

a job doesnt stop because of an obstruction,you work round it,either by buying preformed bends or making your own,no matter what you use your going to have to bend round it.

 

[mackers]

a job doesnt stop because of an obstruction,you work round it,either by buying preformed bends or making your own,no matter what you use your going to have to bend round it.

lol, once did a wharehouse about 150mtrs x 100mtrs pillars about every 5mtrs had to set round every single one with 2x2 galv trunking! nightmare but looked the dogs when we'd finished!

 

[ishy747]

lol, once did a wharehouse about 150mtrs x 100mtrs pillars about every 5mtrs had to set round every single one with 2x2 galv trunking! nightmare but looked the dogs when we'd finished!

I did one just about the same size, Used 2x2 Galv trunking, once you do a couple of bends your like a pro, You will fly through it. I simply used a jigsaw with a HSS blade on for cutting the lengths into desired sizes, and another tip drill out your mounting holes in the full lengths equally spaced so you can screw them down to a work surface whilst you cut and work on them. And besides the customer will be paying for the material don`t worry about the number of bends you need to use (2 internal & 2 external for each pillar/steel support), at least when its finished you will be very proud and pleased with yourself.

SECONDLY!!! If it`s the landlord who is getting you to do the work don`t worry about the tenants consumption or requirements, As I understand the Landlords just needs to provide A sufficient sized D/B and lighting, there on its the tenant who needs to order the remainder work to be done according to the spec`s on his machines etc... so you have two lots of jobs and customers.:devilish:

Hope this helps.

 

[ipf]

a job doesnt stop because of an obstruction,you work round it,either by buying preformed bends or making your own,no matter what you use your going to have to bend round it.

The other option is to angle bracket off the wall for a straight run of trunking, conduit out of the back and 90 degree down to positions.

 

[alarm man]

The other option is to angle bracket off the wall for a straight run of trunking, conduit out of the back and 90 degree down to positions.

decent idea,but will take longer and cost more making and fixing uni strut brackets than a few bends.

 

[ipf]

decent idea,but will take longer and cost more making and fixing uni strut brackets than a few bends.

Done it loads of times, contact in an engineering works very handy. Inch angle iron, welder and red lead or spray paint. Fix a few brackets between pairs of pillars and place the system on top, drill and fix as you go along. I agree about unistrut but, if you can get brackets made up, no probs.

 

[Dave 85]

Im working for the tenant, that's the issue. Landlord supplied 3ph DB and nothing else. I could potentially get a lot of work outta this guy wiring cabins so I can't risk losing this job by overdoing the price. Still waiting for spec but ultimately I'll give him the choice of how it's done