What is the best was to splice electrical wire to power two components? (Arcade power supply and LCD

[Jackson Greaves]

Hi!
I m doing my first build of an arcade machine. At the back of the arcade cabinet will be an IEC socket for mains power. Inside the machine I then need to split the electrical wires so that the one socket can power both the power supply for the console board (standard jamma power supply) and the LCD monitor. The monitor and power supply both take 240v AC mains power. I was told I could just strip back the kettle lead for the monitor and crimp connect the wires to the power cable for the power supply and wire them both into the back of the IEC socket together. Is this safe if both appliances are rated for the same voltage? To be honest I d rather use a junction box or something but not really sure what type of need or how to wire it exactly. I have slight electrical experience but still basically a noob.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Cheers!

 

[ferg]

Lever wagos and a wago box.

A picture would help

 

[Madocks]

Whats their current usage? is it worthwhilst considering some form over overcurrent protection per device whilst splitting the loads?

 

[SparkyChick]

I'd pickup a power distribution strip. If something goes wrong with an internal part it's a simple case of unplug it and plug it back in.

There is also some debate about whether cutting plugs off invalidates guarantee... manufacturers often state it will, whether this stands up in court has probably not been tested, but personally I would go the route which means this can't be an issue.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Here is a picture of an arcade power supply. The bottom 3 connectors are AC and ground, the upper connections are 12v+ 5v+ ground etc. Here is also as picture of the back of the IEC socket I'm planning to use.

The IEC socket had a built in EMI filter and is fused at 6a. I've been told ideally arcade machine should be fused at 5a? The monitor draws 1.5a and the game board that the power supply will be running draws 5a (I think)

 

[Spoon]

You might be able to use something like this.
http://uk.farnell.com/amp-te-connectivity/160834-2/terminal-crimp-piggyback-6-35mm/dp/2101900

 

[SparkyChick]

Then in that case, I would be inclined to use DIN rail mounted terminals (these MUST be enclosed - providing they are not accessible with the case fully closed and the case requires tools to open, that is good enough for enclosing them).

As @Madocks suggested, if you're not having plugs in there, I think it would be prudent to provide some suitable over current protection for each connected item. DIN rail terminals come in many flavours and can include the capability of having a fuse in them. They are also fairly friendly when it comes to stranded cable. But to do the job well, I would use bootlace ferrules on the cables that are connected to the terminals.

For connecting to the various items, you should be able to use standard blade receptacle crimp connectors for the socket inlet and ring (or fork) connectors for the power supply end. But make sure you have a good crimper... a ratchet type.

For connecting the earth, you should use the earthing flavour of DIN rail terminals as they will earth the DIN rail itself. Make sure you get yourself some P-clips (or an alternative) to provide some strain relief for the cables. Or as an alternative, use something like this to contain the cables in the cabinet:-

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-trunkings/3011924/

With regards to the fusing, it depends entirely on what is being connected and the ratings of the components involved. So if your monitor requires 1.5A and the PSU for the board requires 5A, then a 6A rated fuse/socket inlet is a little undersized and you'd be advised to get one rated at 13A and use say a 7A fuse in the inlet fuse holder.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

You might be able to use something like this.
http://uk.farnell.com/amp-te-connectivity/160834-2/terminal-crimp-piggyback-6-35mm/dp/2101900

That looks pretty cool. So I could just cut the wire half way after the IEC socket, reconnect with these crimps and run the monitor off the "piggy back”connections?

 

[SparkyChick]

Sorry about the dupes... staff are aware and should be along sometime soon to clean them up.

 

[ruston]

Sorry about the dupes... staff are aware and should be along sometime soon to clean them up.

I had your problem the other day . Are you on firefox by any chance.

 

[Spoon]

That looks pretty cool. So I could just cut the wire half way after the IEC socket, reconnect with these crimps and run the monitor off the "piggy back”connections?

I was thinking of maybe using them to connect to the IEC socket and then wire your two items from them.

 

[SparkyChick]

I had your problem the other day . Are you on firefox by any chance.

Yes I am

 

[ruston]

Yes I am

So am I .
Opera won't work at all. Page comes up for a few seconds then crashes.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Thanks sparkychic! That's some really good info. Those din rail mounted terminals look quite complicated though. Would it be safe to use the piggy back connectors at the IEC socket as Spoon suggested and then wire up the two components via appropriate inline fuses? All these electronics will be sealed within the arcade unit itself. I'd like to save space as much as possible too as this is just a small bartop arcade with fairly limited space.
Thanks all for your help replies!

 

[SparkyChick]

Thanks sparkychic! That's some really good info. Those din rail mounted terminals look quite complicated though. Would it be safe to use the piggy back connectors at the IEC socket as Spoon suggested and then wire up the two components via appropriate inline fuses? All these electronics will be sealed within the arcade unit itself. I'd like to save space as much as possible too as this is just a small bartop arcade with fairly limited space.
Thanks all for your help replies!

Providing the in-line fuse holders are rated for mains voltage and the expected current, then yes, absolutely.

If it's a small cabinet, then yes, the DIN rail terminals may eat space. The key things are choosing components with suitable ratings. 250VAC and 6A+ would be fine.

Just make sure the crimps are good and firm and if you want to be really sure, crimp them and then flow some solder into the crimped cavity (that's what I normally do when I'm not out on a site).

I take it the plan is to run MAME on the cabinet?

Edit: The DIN rail connectors are not that complicated. Just think of them as customisable terminal strips where you can pick and choose the most appropriate connector. They come in all sorts of sizes and just clip onto the metal DIN rail. Couple of end clamps and an end plate and hey presto you have a terminal strip specifically built for your application.

 

[SparkyChick]

So am I .
Opera won't work at all. Page comes up for a few seconds then crashes.

What version of Firefox? I'm on 56 (resisting the nag screens telling me to upgrade to the latest version as I've got some add-ons I use for web development that I'm not sure are compatible with the latest version).

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Providing the in-line fuse holders are rated for mains voltage and the expected current, then yes, absolutely.

If it's a small cabinet, then yes, the DIN rail terminals may eat space. The key things are choosing components with suitable ratings. 250VAC and 6A+ would be fine.

Just make sure the crimps are good and firm and if you want to be really sure, crimp them and then flow some solder into the crimped cavity (that's what I normally do when I'm not out on a site).

I take it the plan is to run MAME on the cabinet?

Cool thanks, I think I'll go with that then.
The arcade set up is going to be jamma, I will be using a Pandora's box multi game jamma board. The plan is to set it up so I can switch the Pandora's box for original arcade jamma pcbs as and when I acquire them.
Should I just be fusing the live wires, or the neutrals as well?

 

[SparkyChick]

Fuses should be in the line conductors only.

 

[UKMeterman]

Hi,

Is this equipment for home or public use? If for public use have you looked into your product liablity and appropriate testing?
If you are not familar with din rail terminals, an example can be seen here http://uk.farnell.com/weidmuller/103140-wdu1-5zz/terminal-block-din-rail-4pos-14awg/dp/1131788

They are intended to go on to a rail like http://uk.farnell.com/wieland-electric/ws-005-3542/din-rail-7-5mm-deep/dp/103727

and you will need some end blocks http://uk.farnell.com/weidmuller/ew35/end-bracket-symmetric/dp/238466

end plates such as http://uk.farnell.com/weidmuller/wap2-5-10/end-cover/dp/575112

and earth connections such as http://uk.farnell.com/weidmuller/101000-wpe2-5/terminal-block-din-rail-2pos-12awg/dp/1131792

 

[PEG]

Providing the in-line fuse holders are rated for mains voltage and the expected current, then yes, absolutely.

If it's a small cabinet, then yes, the DIN rail terminals may eat space. The key things are choosing components with suitable ratings. 250VAC and 6A+ would be fine.

Just make sure the crimps are good and firm and if you want to be really sure, crimp them and then flow some solder into the crimped cavity (that's what I normally do when I'm not out on a site).

I take it the plan is to run MAME on the cabinet?

Edit: The DIN rail connectors are not that complicated. Just think of them as customisable terminal strips where you can pick and choose the most appropriate connector. They come in all sorts of sizes and just clip onto the metal DIN rail. Couple of end clamps and an end plate and hey presto you have a terminal strip specifically built for your application.

Some great advice,here,but the solder is not necessary,if the crimping is suitable. Indeed,depending on the conductor type,and machine operating conditions,it could be detrimental.

I've got the loud,vibrating type of arcade machine,in mind

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Cool, thanks guys!
Would the fuses terminal blocks here be suitable for putting inline fuses in for the PSU and monitor?

Plug Top 20mm and 25mm (1 Inch) Fused Terminal Block | maplin - https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/plug-top-20mm-and-25mm-1-inch-fused-terminal-block-tz17t

However, I was thinking, this monitor is just a 19" Dell LCD pc monitor. Usually the kettle lead plus straight in the back so I guess it has an internal fuse no? If so do I still need to fuse the live line in for the monitor? Or just the PSU?

 

[Spoon]

What is the recommended fuse size for the monitor?
What is the recommended fuse size for the PSU?
You have a 6A fuse in the IEC connector that you could change to a different size, if needed.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

The monitor has an IEC socket for it's power in and it came with a kettle lead that was fused at 13a. Regarding current etc. This is from the manual for the monitor:

AC input voltage/frequency/current 100 to 240 VAC/50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz/1.5A (Max.)

Inrush current 120V:42A (Max.)
240V:80A (Max.)

The recommended fuse size for the PSU is 5a I'm pretty sure.
Should I fuse the IEC socket at 10a?

 

[SparkyChick]

Some great advice,here,but the solder is not necessary,if the crimping is suitable. Indeed,depending on the conductor type,and machine operating conditions,it could be detrimental.

I've got the loud,vibrating type of arcade machine,in mind

Pinball?

Good point about operating conditions. Are you thinking primarily vibration and the potential for the cable to fail where the solder ends?

 

[UKMeterman]

There is also the issue where if a wire is tinned then it will make any screw terminal fail over time as the solder cold flows under the screw pressure.

 

[SparkyChick]

There is also the issue where if a wire is tinned then it will make any screw terminal fail over time as the solder cold flows under the screw pressure.

I wasn't suggesting tinning the ends going into terminals, although I have to admit I did do that quite a bit in the past (not on mains cables though), just flowing some solder into the crimps.

 

[UKMeterman]

If the crimp has been done right then it will be by deffiition gas tight and there will be no room for any solder!

 

[PEG]

Pinball?

Good point about operating conditions. Are you thinking primarily vibration and the potential for the cable to fail where the solder ends?

That is one of the concerns,which,of course,as a professional,you would assess on any given job,with the materials to hand.

The problem is,that the OP,with their admitted limited experience,would not be able to do this,and may be inspired to use a less than suitable method

We all use techniques and tricks,that may bypass MI from time to time,myself more than most! It is hopefully understood,that should push come to shove - we could provide a reasoned and qualified explanation,of doing so.

A "third-person",or the OP in this instance,would just quote advice on a forum...

All reputable manufacturers of terminals and fittings,list approved,compatible associated products,together with the methods of use. I have dealt with dozens,Klauke,Fast-on,and many others,and i cannot ever recall a fitting method which stated "...after crimping,then solder..." which does not mean it is impossible.

The two methods are usually,independent means,of achieving an end,and the application of heat,could alter the integrity of any crimp,together with several other issues,including insulation damage,and migration of solder/flux,etc.

All sounds a bit pedantic - for a new year's day! and i am happy to tell you,of occasions where i deliberately ignore these rules,to achieve a better conclusion.
I would,however,be hesitant,of passing on some of my "foibles",as advice,to an OP.

 

[SparkyChick]

I think technically correct is a better way of putting it than pedantic, but however you want to put it, very informative. Highlighted a few things I wouldn't have considered.

Thanks

 

[Jackson Greaves]

So, er, will the monitor need an inline fuse?

 

[SparkyChick]

Ideally, if you're removing the plug (which contains the fuse) then yes, provide it with a fuse. It's just taking precautions. As for the IEC socket... you should only fuse it at 10A IF the socket itself can cope with 10A. Not all IEC sockets are created equal If it's got a built in surge/noise filter, it's more likely to have a lower rating as the components that make up the filter will have maximum current ratings which will be the primary limiting factor.

This is why I suggested you over spec the socket inlet. May cost a little more, but if it can handle 13A, then it's going to be good and more than happy to be fused down.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Cool thank you, I'll put an inline fuse in for both. As an IEC socket I was looking at this:

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/iec-filters/5393638/

So IEC socket fused at 10 amp and then both monitor and PSU with 5 amp inline fuses? Does that sound ok considering:

"This is from the manual for the monitor:

AC input voltage/frequency/current 100 to 240 VAC/50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz/1.5A (Max.)

Inrush current 120V:42A (Max.)
240V:80A (Max.)

The recommended fuse size for the PSU is 5a I'm pretty sure."

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Cool thank you, I'll put an inline fuse in for both. As an IEC socket I was looking at this:

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/iec-filters/5393638/

So IEC socket fused at 10 amp and then both monitor and PSU with 5 amp inline fuses? Does that sound ok considering:

"This is from the manual for the monitor:

AC input voltage/frequency/current 100 to 240 VAC/50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz/1.5A (Max.)

Inrush current 120V:42A (Max.)
240V:80A (Max.)

The recommended fuse size for the PSU is 5a I'm pretty sure."

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Cool thank you, I'll put an inline fuse in for both. As an IEC socket I was looking at this:

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/iec-filters/5393638/

The IEC socket fused at 10 amp and then both monitor and PSU with 5 amp inline fuses? Does that sound ok considering:

This is from the manual for the monitor:

AC input voltage/frequency/current 100 to 240 VAC/50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz/1.5A (Max.)

Inrush current 120V:42A (Max.)
240V:80A (Max.)

The recommended fuse size for the PSU is 5a I'm pretty sure.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Cool thank you, I'll put an inline fuse in for both. As an IEC socket I was looking at this:

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/iec-filters/5393638/

The IEC socket fused at 10 amp and then both monitor and PSU with 5 amp inline fuses? Does that sound ok considering:

This is from the manual for the monitor:

AC input voltage/frequency/current 100 to 240 VAC/50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz/1.5A (Max.)

Inrush current 120V:42A (Max.)
240V:80A (Max.)

The recommended fuse size for the PSU is 5a I'm pretty sure.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Cool thank you, I'll put an inline fuse in for both. As an IEC socket I was looking at this:

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/iec-filters/5393638/

The IEC socket fused at 10 amp and then both monitor and PSU with 5 amp inline fuses? Does that sound ok considering:

This is from the manual for the monitor:

AC input voltage/frequency/current 100 to 240 VAC/50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz/1.5A (Max.)

Inrush current 120V:42A (Max.)
240V:80A (Max.)

The recommended fuse size for the PSU is 5a I'm pretty sure.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Cool thank you, I'll put an inline fuse in for both. As an IEC socket I was looking at this:

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/iec-filters/5393638/

The IEC socket fused at 10 amp and then both monitor and PSU with 5 amp inline fuses? Does that sound ok considering:

This is from the manual for the monitor:

AC input voltage/frequency/current 100 to 240 VAC/50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz/1.5A (Max.)

Inrush current 120V:42A (Max.)
240V:80A (Max.)

The recommended fuse size for the PSU is 5a I'm pretty sure.

 

[Jackson Greaves]

Wow, sorry about the duplicates

 

[GeorgeCooke]

With regards to the fusing, it depends entirely on what is being connected and the ratings of the components involved. So if your monitor requires 1.5A and the PSU for the board requires 5A, then a 6A rated fuse/socket inlet is a little undersized and you'd be advised to get one rated at 13A and use say a 7A fuse in the inlet fuse holder.

But the power supply requires 1.3 amps (it says so on the back of it). So power supply plus monitor is only 2.8 amps.

They should both be internally protected or fused so no further external fusing should be required apart from to protect the cables. The 6 amp fuse in the inlet is all that is required.

 

[ruston]

What version of Firefox? I'm on 56 (resisting the nag screens telling me to upgrade to the latest version as I've got some add-ons I use for web development that I'm not sure are compatible with the latest version).

I am not sure what version I am on , but I was getting messages that informed me that something was slowing my pc down , also to consider upgrades.
Since I posted I have successfully reloaded an Opera update and it is ok now so I will have to wait and see if it continues to be.

I see @Jackson Greaves is having similar problems.

 

[gnuuser]

Some great advice,here,but the solder is not necessary,if the crimping is suitable. Indeed,depending on the conductor type,and machine operating conditions,it could be detrimental.

I've got the loud,vibrating type of arcade machine,in mind

when using din rails in a machine with a lot of vibration, always torque the terminal screws down to the proper torque rating, and add a drop of enamel or thread lock to the top of the screw, use a sharpie to mark the position on the screw! (this can help in diagnosing possible issues with loose screws)
as others have stated din rail terminals are widely diverse and suitable for many applications.
but they do need to be in an enclosure.