Welder "must be connected to a 30A fused spur"

[Guest112]

My old man just rang me wants to buy a welder but the manufacturers instructions say the welder has to be connected to a 30A fused spur, He hasnt bought it yet he said hes going to get more details for me tomorrow which ill post up,

From what i gather this'll have to be on a dedicated circuit but ive never heard of a 30A fused spur and can't find them online.

Anyone heard of these or know where to get them or installed one of theses welders before?

Any information would be great, I'll post the extra info as soon as i get it on here.

Thanks

 

[Guest123]

Your old man not called Imran is he???

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...forum/45019-30a-fused-spur-needed-welder.html

 

[Guest112]

didnt see that thread cheers lenny must be a good welder word is spreading lol

 

[telectrix]

bear in mind that a "30A fused spur" can be renamed a 30A fused radial. i.e. referring to the circuit, not a FCU. then it makes sense. a 30A radial circuit ( 4mm) protected by a 30Afuse ( or 32A MCB. )

 

[Guest112]

bear in mind that a "30A fused spur" can be renamed a 30A fused radial. i.e. referring to the circuit, not a
FCU. then it makes sense. a 30A radial circuit ( 4mm) protected by a 30Afuse ( or 32A MCB. )

my thoughts also mate i was considering connecting the welder to a commando socket and just protecting the circuit from the db

 

[telectrix]

sounds like a plan. esp if you've got some 4mm or 6mm T/E left over from a job.

 

[Mr Mike]

Your old man not called Imran is he???

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...forum/45019-30a-fused-spur-needed-welder.html

Lenny,
The Super Moderator, shall now have the title; Hawk Eye, Super Moderator.

 

[overskilled]

My old man has one of those welders.
Was thinking of going 6mm2 T+E (have a length going spare) from a 32Amp MCB covered by an RCD into a 32A Commando socket and putting commando plug on the welder.
However when I opened the welder box to have a look at the data plate, the cord supplying the welder is 1.5mm2 H07RNF LNE, which unless my head is up my rear end (wouldn't be the first time either) is only rated to 16 amps.
Data plate on the welder has a max I1 value of 36.8A and a nominal value of 11.8A, welder itself is internally fused at 22A.....So now considering a 16A Type C / Type D MCB (still covered by RCD) and 16A Commando socket and plug. Only concern is start up current draw might cause nuisance tripping even with the Type C or D MCB.....as welding is a hobby for my old man so can take him a bit to get a weld struck properly.
Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I wouldn't use an RCD.

 

[telectrix]

bear in mind that your Zs will have to be considerably lower on a type c or d MCB. 6mm should take care of that if you have a nice low value of Ze.

 

[telectrix]

I wouldn't use an RCD.

nor me, as long as it's not for outdoor use.

 

[overskilled]

The CU in the Garage is a dual RCD board, which would need some minor mods to fit a non RCD protected circuit.....might be an option though. However knowing my dad...it likely will get used outside so will need to be RCD protected...and he is one of "those" who are deliberately ignorant of electricity....so RCD protection might be a good thing.
I need to check the Ze...thanks. The house ratings are fine and the Garage is fed off a short run of 6mm2 mechanically protected T+E so hopefully Ze should be ok. (Though just remembered that the guy who replaced the house CU stuck the garage on the house RCD....so need to sort that to regain discrimination........my old man and "time served boys" recommended through the pub or other dubious means, none of them who have any clue seemingly.

 

[Knobhead]

The 32A rating is for when the arc is first struck and the transformer / choke saturates. Once saturated the current drops. If you do lots of little tacks expect trouble.
Glad I’ve only had to work on industrial sets. Mind you a moron welder can cause plenty of damage. “There’s something wrong with the 63A plug and cable, it’s smoking!” I’ve near strangled them with the earth clamp lead.

 

[telectrix]

dunno about welders, but i could name a few plumbers i would like to connect to a 30A socket.

 

[Rockingit]

dunno about welders, but i could name a few plumbers i would like to connect to a 30A socket.

Can I add one to your list? Please?!

 

[overskilled]

hmm decisions decisions.....manufacturers guidance fair enough but how can you justify the lack of overcurrent protection for the flex supplying the welder? (32 amp breaker covering flex rated at 16 amps)

 

[supasparxs]

Just a thought, could the welder be an American machine, and as a welder is basically a transformer.
It would explain why a 1.5 flex could supply 32amps

 

[overskilled]

Chinese made welder, warranty provider is an austrian firm....Walter Werkzeuge Online Shop | Werkzeuge direkt vom Hersteller | Günstiges Werkzeug für Heimwerker, their own welders are higher price bracket (though they still sell the same crappy hand held face shield), also no mention of said aldi welder on their site, though they do deal with the powercraft brand. (likely not updated for months).
Could well be that the welder was designed for another market, I'm thinking chinese market as their approach to electrical safety is a bit different to ours (2.5 Kw kettle on 0.75 flex and 13A fuse in plug.....CE approved so trading standards not interested, especially as major uk brand name on box....flex gets rather hot to put it mildly...so back it went)

 

[supasparxs]

(steps onto insulated mat)

 

[overskilled]

So the final decision was......go with manufacturers instructions, as the old man doesn't want it to trip if he is tacking or welding on the driveway (personally I was going to try it hard wired to a 16A circuit on full bore and see if it pops a type C 16A, but he as the client doesn't want the chance of it popping while he is using it and I'm elsewhere), so a 32A circuit covered by one of the sheds RCDs, connected to a 32A commando socket, 32A commando plug on the welder (which I need to do something to as the 1.5mm2 cord is too small for the cord grip....thinking non conductive sealant between the cord and the outside of the plug cord entry to stop the cord being pulled out and stop moisture ingress)
Next thing is finding a 32A commando extension lead, have a couple of options (ebay being one), screwfix sell the plugs but no 32A leads...

 

[UKMeterman]

Was this kettle a supermarket own brand? I had the same discussion with trading standards but they didn't want to know...

 

[overskilled]

Yeah own brand, one of the bigger brands, who did say they would pass my comments onto their technical department and their buyers as the manager who phoned me back agreed that a kettle with a properly sized flex priced at 8 pounds or so which lasts 2 or 3 years looks better than a kettle with a thin flex at a fiver which barely lasts a year...heard nothing further though....big surprise.
Argument being is that the BS for kettles allows a flex of less than 75 cm to be done in 0.75mm2, as its only used for short periods and the flex shouldn't get "that hot"....hmmm obviously they have never been in the homes of some elderly folk, who for cost and other reasons just boil the water they need and sometimes will boil 3 or 4 kettles back to back for cups of tea then dishes, fill a mop bucket etc.
Trading standards also decided that a quick PAT test was a suitable testing method.......ignoring the thin flex, which likely will wear out over time (had one previously where the base had started to melt where the terminals were due to the heat being generated.

 

[aptsys]

Just a thought, could the welder be an American machine, and as a welder is basically a transformer.
It would explain why a 1.5 flex could supply 32amps

What on earth are you smoking? The current rating of flex does not depend on the voltage.