Turning a blind eye123456789

[Pete999]

There was a post today regarding some testing problems, seems that the poor chat had taken a short course with the promise of getting qualified at the end, providing the exam was passed, which he did to his credit, personally my understanding was / is that these courses try to cram peoples heads with so much information in a short time span, that unless you are totally committed it will go in one ear and out the other. You probably know by know I'm not a fan of these courses.
I have a question, to which I think I know the answer, who polices these training centers? is it the CP Schemes? If so they aren't making a very good job of it, there were several comments, mine included, wondering if these short courses are working, for some yes of course they are, and produce some good Electricians, is there a Government oversight on these courses, or have they just turned a blind eye, thing "well at least we have done something about the skill shortage" What's your opinion?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I doubt anyone polices these centres as such.
There may be some oversight from the examination boards, C&G, EAL, etc?

 

[Pete999]

I doubt anyone polices these centres as such.
There may be some oversight from the examination boards, C&G, EAL, etc?

Thanks Mate, surely the powers that be in the IET or whoever, must realise what is going on, I'm at a loss, and so glad I have retired, shameful state of affairs.

 

[westward10]

I am doing a five day dentistry course next week so anyone with dental issues just pm me and we will sort something.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

As someone who has gone this route I can assure you that they take your money and don’t give a ----.

 

[telectrix]

these short courses are policed very well by the likes of NICEIC. as long as they pass enough candidates to swell the funds of the scams, then that's it.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

Pete, in fairness to the post you’re referring to I thought he seemed reasonably understanding on what he knew and his limitations. I myself only “got into this type of thing” due to the cowboys out there.

Ironic that the “fix” to eliminate the cowboy aspect has effectively endorsed it

 

[Midwest]

Pete perhaps you should ask one of the forum sponsors;

IET Centre of Excellence - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/pages/iet-centre-of-excellence
perhaps its the grown ups at the IET who are to blame?

Whilst I agree I can't see how you can become an electrician in 18 days, some of the other courses seem perfectly plausible; I did a 2392 with them, and you know how brilliant my testing skills are

 

[Pete999]

Pete, in fairness to the post you’re referring to I thought he seemed reasonably understanding on what he knew and his limitations. I myself only “got into this type of thing” due to the cowboys out there.

Ironic that the “fix” to eliminate the cowboy aspect has effectively endorsed it

In fairness DJ I wholeheartedly sympathize with the OP and in no way was I having a dig at him, so please , please don't think differently, I understand he has some probs with his skill set that's understandable, my gripe was/is with the expectations dished out by the training centers, and in conclusion I wish the OP all the best.

 

[The Ghost]

To be fair again, I had an 18 year old who had just finished three years doing the proper course who came and worked with me. A quiet lad and thoughtful, but he did not have a clue when it came to first fix even. He put one earth on a rfc 2.5 cable into the terminal on the metal box and the other earth into the socket earth terminal. I asked him to wire a ceiling rose and it was a complete mess. I asked him to terminate some lighting cables into wagos, he could not do it at least at first. After showing him a few times he got it. Whereas I could terminate the lot per light in a couple of minutes it was taking him 20-30 minutes. It is very much to do with experience in the end and being guided by someone who knows the skills. For instance the man abducted by the aliens, it is ok to know how to test an rfc but what about when the figures go wrong, how do you interpret/understand it and remedy it? Again experience and a good grasp of the maths/science are the key factors which I think no course can teach even if they are policed as it were.

 

[Pete999]

To be fair again, I had an 18 year old who had just finished three years doing the proper course who came and worked with me. A quiet lad and thoughtful, but he did not have a clue when it came to first fix even. He put one earth on a rfc 2.5 cable into the terminal on the metal box and the other earth into the socket earth terminal. I asked him to wire a ceiling rose and it was a complete mess. I asked him to terminate some lighting cables into wagos, he could not do it at least at first. After showing him a few times he got it. Whereas I could terminate the lot per light in a couple of minutes it was taking him 20-30 minutes. It is very much to do with experience in the end and being guided by someone who knows the skills. For instance the man abducted by the aliens, it is ok to know how to test an rfc but what about when the figures go wrong, how do you interpret/understand it and remedy it? Again experience and a good grasp of the maths/science are the key factors which I think no course can teach even if they are policed as it were.

Well good for him, my gripe was aimed at the expectations these courses dish out, I hope the Lad you have does well, good luck to you and him.

 

[The Ghost]

Well good for him

Yeh but the thing is what the hell were they teaching him at college for three years, can't even wire a socket! Ye gods!

 

[Midwest]

To be fair again, I had an 18 year old who had just finished three years doing the proper course who came and worked with me. A quiet lad and thoughtful, but he did not have a clue when it came to first fix even. He put one earth on a rfc 2.5 cable into the terminal on the metal box and the other earth into the socket earth terminal. I asked him to wire a ceiling rose and it was a complete mess. I asked him to terminate some lighting cables into wagos, he could not do it at least at first. After showing him a few times he got it. Whereas I could terminate the lot per light in a couple of minutes it was taking him 20-30 minutes. It is very much to do with experience in the end and being guided by someone who knows the skills. For instance the man abducted by the aliens, it is ok to know how to test an rfc but what about when the figures go wrong, how do you interpret/understand it and remedy it? Again experience and a good grasp of the maths/science are the key factors which I think no course can teach even if they are policed as it were.

I have to agree with you Vortigern, when I did my apprenticeship (for which I paid diddley), there were quite a few colleagues that were rough as a badgers arse, not me of course!

Having worked with some guys who have had to pay for their own training, I've been most impressed with their skills, commitment & ability. I suppose the only area they are short on is experience. But they can gain that, like using this forum.

 

[Midwest]

I have to agree with you Vortigern, when I did my apprenticeship (for which I paid diddley), there were quite a few colleagues that were rough as a badgers arse, not me of course!

Having worked with some guys who have had to pay for their own training, I've been most impressed with their skills, commitment & ability. I suppose the only area they are short on is experience. But they can gain that, like using this forum.

That's not quite true, I was working on my own after the first year, so the firm made their money out of me.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

I didn’t mate!

In fairness DJ I wholeheartedly sympathize with the OP and in no way was I having a dig at him, so please , please don't think differently, I understand he has some probs with his skill set that's understandable, my gripe was/is with the expectations dished out by the training centers, and in conclusion I wish the OP all the best.

 

[Stspark]

I don't think we can rely on the IET to police the industry as previously suggested, it's just a profiteering business like the CPS's, JIB, ect ect. Look at the amount of 'electricians guides', 'student guides', 'COP's', 'guidance notes' and continuous regs amendments all of which are relevant and informative but come at a substantial cost. Even the 'wiring matters' has sponsored articles.

Energy Bulletin - https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/publications/energy-bulletin
This is an Australian version of 'wiring matters'. Where the electrical and gas industry are full licenced by the government. Put's the 'iet wiring matters' to shame!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Don’t think you can really compare the State Government of Western Australia with the IET.

 

[ipf]

Don’t think you can really compare the State Government of Western Australia with the IET.

No....but, at least if you tried training a kangaroo as an apprentice, it wouldn't be on an iPhone all day.

 

[Dave Rudderham]

To be fair again, I had an 18 year old who had just finished three years doing the proper course who came and worked with me. A quiet lad and thoughtful, but he did not have a clue when it came to first fix even. He put one earth on a rfc 2.5 cable into the terminal on the metal box and the other earth into the socket earth terminal. I asked him to wire a ceiling rose and it was a complete mess. I asked him to terminate some lighting cables into wagos, he could not do it at least at first. After showing him a few times he got it. Whereas I could terminate the lot per light in a couple of minutes it was taking him 20-30 minutes. It is very much to do with experience in the end and being guided by someone who knows the skills. For instance the man abducted by the aliens, it is ok to know how to test an rfc but what about when the figures go wrong, how do you interpret/understand it and remedy it? Again experience and a good grasp of the maths/science are the key factors which I think no course can teach even if they are policed as it were.

I am currently on a level 3 course as a mature student. Luckily I have experience that goes back for the best part of 20 years, I could wire a ceiling rose when I was 14, but that's besides the point.
Hear the tales I tell because I pity some of the people who are getting the youngsters.
Last week we had a lad being quite loud in professing that "yellow plug" was 110v 3-phase. In theory I am often told to be quiet as I quite literally know all the answers. Questions such as "what is voltage?" "Explain how an MCB/RCD/RCBO differ?" "Explain how they work?" "Why would you fit a 20A MCB to a radial using 2.5mmsq and in what circumstances could you use a 32A MCB?" are met with absolute silence.

 

[Stspark]

Don’t think you can really compare the State Government of Western Australia with the IET.

Clearly.
Seems to me 1 governing body works quite well. With NIC, Napit, Stroma, Elecsa, JIB, Electrical safety first, IET all with their own agendas it's no wonder the industry in UK seems to be becoming lower skilled and lower paid.