Turning your neighbour off..

[Bakerboy]

Hello all.

This is my first post and im looking for a little advice.

Before i explain i would just like to mention that i havent been to see the job yet but this was relayed to me by the builder so information may be abit sparse and slightly incorrect.

Basically there is 3 flats that are all fed from the origin and fused(63amp) and metered outside the basement flat(external wall). There is then 3 sets of tails going through into the basement flat feeding the basement flats C.U, a double pole isolator (45amp) for flat 2 and a D.P isolator(45 amp) for flat 3. From each isolator the feeds to the corresponding flats C.U's are fed in 10mm t&e.

1st question. Is it against any reg that there is isolators for flats 2 and 3 inside flat 1.

2nd question. Whats the best way for upgrade all cabling and to have each flats supply independant of the other.

Thanks

 

[vernam616]

Change the isolators to henley blocks to connect it through and seal it

then install a isolator in each flat in-line

 

[mogga]

You need to protect the tails if they are over 3mtr so probably reroute them and fit breaker/switched fuse at the mains

 

[nickblake]

Agree with mogga here tails need to be protected also if they are installed less than 50mm in a wall they need RCD protecting too what i would do is New CDU each with its own time delayed 45 amp RCBO so that any other RCD in the circuit will not trip the first that way each installation is protected and also give you an isolator switch to isolate the complete installation if required (that i mean there is not a suppliers main switch )

 

[Knobhead]

The point of isolation should be accessible to the flat occupants.
Flat 2’s CU is going up in flames, but the guy in flat 1 has ****** off to the pub, mums or where ever!
Not a good situation.

 

[Bakerboy]

So then the new rcbo's for flat 2 and 3 will be located outside in a cupboard under lock and key???

 

[Knobhead]

Not an RCBO as primary point of isolation. An isolator may be if the fuse switch unit is within allowable distances. But you’re still left with the problem of flat one going away and locking up.
Get the fuse switch units moved to where they are accessible.

 

[Bakerboy]

Well the only place with 3 metres of origin is outside on the external wall. Im thinking a external waterproof cupboard that can be locked.

 

[platty1005]

Are the flats rented ? if yes the owner or landlord is required to comply with the EAWR 1989 and this seems to fit the bill.
Paragraph 182 is particularly relevant

Regulation 12 Means for cutting off the supply and
for isolation
(1) Subject to paragraph (3), where necessary to prevent danger, suitable
means (including, where appropriate, methods of identifying circuits) shall be
available for -
(a) cutting off the supply of electrical energy to any electrical equipment;
and
(b) the isolation of any electrical equipment.
(2) In paragraph (1), “isolation” means the disconnection and separation of the electrical equipment from every source of electrical energy in such a way that this disconnection and separation is secure.
(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to electrical equipment which is itself a
source of electrical energy but, in such a case as is necessary, precautions shall be
taken to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, danger.
181 The defence (regulation 29) is available in any proceedings for an offence under this regulation.
Regulation 12(1)(a)
182 The objective of this part of the regulation is to ensure that, where necessary to prevent danger, suitable means are available by which the electricity supply to any piece of equipment can be switched off. Switching can be, for example, by direct manual operation or by indirect operation via ‘stop’ buttons in the control circuits of contactors or circuit breakers. There may be a need to switch off electrical equipment for reasons other than preventing electrical danger but these
considerations are outside the scope of the Regulations.Are the flats rented ? if yes the owner or landlord is required to comply with the EAWR 1989.
EAWR Free download:- cut and paste in your browser Memorandum of guidance on the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 - HSE Books

 

[Knobhead]

You’re hands are tied then.

 

[JamesBrownLive]

This is probably just me being naive, but isn't 63a for 3 flats a little on the small side? Are they bedsits?

 

[Dcf]

I got sent to a job years ago to wire an additional socket.
Got to the point of connection and asked where the box was.
Blank looks and a shifty round the house no result.
Turns out it was next door n they were out for the day.
A bit of hot gloving later n it was done but a ball ache all the same.
In times of disaster it could b nasty

 

[Bakerboy]

Each flat has its own 63amp fuse and metre outside the basement flat

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The point of isolation should be accessible to the flat occupants.
Flat 2’s CU is going up in flames, but the guy in flat 1 has ****** off to the pub, mums or where ever!
Not a good situation.

No different from the tens of millions of properties with no isolator.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Are the flats rented ? if yes the owner or landlord is required to comply with the EAWR 1989

Is he? Why?

Are the flats places of work?

182 The objective of this part of the regulation is to ensure that, where necessary to prevent danger, suitable means are available by which the electricity supply to any piece of equipment can be switched off. Switching can be, for example, by direct manual operation or by indirect operation via ‘stop’ buttons in the control circuits of contactors or circuit breakers. There may be a need to switch off electrical equipment for reasons other than preventing electrical danger but these
considerations are outside the scope of the Regulations.

So how would you isoate the supply to an isolator?

EAWR Free download:- cut and paste in your browser Memorandum of guidance on the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 - HSE Books

No - that's not the EAWR, it's the guidance document.

The EAWR are here: The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I got sent to a job years ago to wire an additional socket.
Got to the point of connection and asked where the box was.
Blank looks and a shifty round the house no result.
Turns out it was next door n they were out for the day.
A bit of hot gloving later n it was done but a ball ache all the same.
In times of disaster it could b nasty

Totally different from just not having an isolator.

BTW - do you realise that if something had gone wrong your employer would have been fully justified in dismissing you instantly for gross misconduct.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think if I lived in Flat 2 or 3 I'd be a lot more worried about the guy in Flat 1 maliciously or negligently cutting my supply off than not having my own isolator. I wonder if the people in those flats know?

If I lived in the LH half of one of the semis in my street I'd be worried that my neighbour could maliciously or negligently leave my installation without an earth. I'm almost certain that none of them know that it runs, fully exposed and accessible, in someone else's house.

 

[rob121]

Each flat has its own 63amp fuse and metre outside the basement flat

So the means of isolation is on the exterior of the flat? Theyve obv added the extra box inside to cover the 10mm T+E, otherwise youve got no protection for it. I reckon its an RCD (inside the flat) to cover the 10mm cables running through the property. (inside the flat)

I recommend looking at the installation for yourself as builders descriptions can vary!

 

[platty1005]

Thanks for the correction Banallsheds it is indeed the guidance.
The person has a job as a landlord hence the property is connected to his employment hence he is at work as a landlord his workplace the flats. He has a duty of care to the tenants I would argue under the HASAW act and all other relevant regulations including EAWR I cannot positively confirm this but the original question was asking for any info to help put pressure on the owners to improve the situation

PS if he works for a letting company he is employed as landlord If he owns and lets he is self employed both covered by EAWR both deemed duty holders

PPS a strong argument but only holds water if confirmed in a court of LAW will they want to go that far. My bet landlord is under EAWR

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I wish i could turn my neighbours off (her mouth that is) I could hear her screeching on earlier and there still partying and carrying on now: 3 times this week ffs. And dont get me started on their barking dog........

 

[Mr Mike]

I wish i could turn my neighbours off (her mouth that is) I could hear her screeching on earlier and there still partying and carrying on now: 3 times this week ffs. And dont get me started on their barking dog........

Shot gun springs to mind, then the RSPCA for the animal lol

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Shot gun springs to mind, then the RSPCA for the animal lol

RSPCA for her more like: you should see the state of her.........

 

[Knobhead]

I wish i could turn my neighbours off (her mouth that is) I could hear her screeching on earlier and there still partying and carrying on now: 3 times this week ffs. And dont get me started on their barking dog........

Get in touch with the council. They’ll issue a noise abatement order. Both my son and I know about them we both had them issued against us, 2 days apart and in 2 counties.
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