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HappyHippyDad

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My customer wants to fit round sockets and switches. He has sent me a link to the back boxes that are required.

A few questions..

1. Has anyone fitted these before (see links below)? if so, did the backboxes take much longer than normal 25mm boxes? I believe they are 46mm deep or even 66mm??!! Do they need cementing in as I don't think they have screw holes? They look like a pain! No variable lug on one side, so has to be fitted perfectly level!!

2. The sockets will be unswitched. I can't see a problem with this as Table J1 in OSG shows a plug and socket as acceptable for isolation (and even functional switching) but thought I'd check?

3. Any other unforeseen problems using this style of socket/switch and backbox?

Backbox Kaiser back box for solid walls - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/kaiser-backbox-solid-wall/
Dimmer Duroplast Dimmer Round - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/duroplast-led-dimmer-round-switch/#what-you-need-to-know
Socket Roo Nigra Socket - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/katypaty-roo-nigra-socket/?attribute_pa_finish=black-matt&attribute_pa_function=single-unswitched
Switch
What a PITA 😩. Still, you charge accordingly 😀
 
The round boxes that I have fitted for certain under-floor heating controls are much deeper than your typical plaster box and do take a bit more faffing about with to get level. The ones I have fitted also have various spouts top and bottom for euro style conduit which make the box even bigger to chop in.
 
The round boxes that I have fitted for certain under-floor heating controls are much deeper than your typical plaster box and do take a bit more faffing about with to get level. The ones I have fitted also have various spouts top and bottom for euro style conduit which make the box even bigger to chop in.
Thanks Dusty. Can you remember if you had to cement them in?
 
Thanks Dusty. Can you remember if you had to cement them in?
You can drill a small hole in the box as the ones I fitted are plastic and just screw it back. But if you are worried about it shifting around it might be wise to whack a bit of muck in around the box to hold it steady
 
From the link, might be worth investigating, the fixing rings may allow adjustment of the box after fixing,

We can also supply specialist Kaiser tools, for example very handy plastic fixing rings that hold the box in its cavity without filler/cement. We also have templates to space the holes for multiple boxes or double box installation. Get in touch to find out more.

THIS PRODUCT CAN ONLY BE PURCHASED TOGETHER WITH A SWITCH OR SOCKET
 
From the link, might be worth investigating, the fixing rings may allow adjustment of the box after fixing,

We can also supply specialist Kaiser tools, for example very handy plastic fixing rings that hold the box in its cavity without filler/cement. We also have templates to space the holes for multiple boxes or double box installation. Get in touch to find out more.

THIS PRODUCT CAN ONLY BE PURCHASED TOGETHER WITH A SWITCH OR SOCKET
Thanks Snowhead,

Could you link the plastic fixing rings please? I can see a number of other accessories but not that one.
 
Thanks Snowhead,

Could you link the plastic fixing rings please? I can see a number of other accessories but not that one.

I couldn't see them, I think you have to contact the supplier.

But from a different site that has a lot of Euroboxes, check out the video as well including the plaster covers

 
I had issues a few months ago looking for sockets for a German built kit house, but the back box looked like these… but in orange. They did have a fixing tab. (Tightening the small screws brought tabs forward and gripped the dry lining.)

Not had time to look at your supplier pages, but are these built to BRITISH standards or is it like the child safety plug shields that none of us like?
Ie, using proper BS sized plugs could damage the sockets of not BS themselves?
 
There is the brackets:

There is spacing tool:

And here is video how to use it:

Remember those are only good if you dot and dab or thick plaster the wall, otherwise can't really use them as the box will protrude by 10mm. I would squeeze some expanding foam before placing them in the hole.

They are easy to install as opening is round so you can drill it and its done. Positioning maybe little bit trickier. Do it as you would normally do - make openings for boxes, do the channels for cables, set the boxes using those clips and foam or bonding (add bit of cement if you want to goes off quicker) and run cables. There are special positioning tools but for one off its not worth buying and you probably would not find it in UK anyway.
 
Thanks Dusty. Can you remember if you had to cement them in?
Hi there, I work for Swtch - happy to answer your questions as best as I can. We have quite a few bits of information on fitting round boxes, such as a couple of videos from the manufacturer of the boxes. As you probably know, round boxes are the norm in most European countries, so there is a wealth of experience and tools available. Probably best if you get in touch via [email protected] and we'll send you some more specific links.

Is it only solid walls you need to fit the switches/sockets in, or do you have plasterboard ones too? Drilling a round hole in board for each box is actually much quicker, but in brick it's obviously a different matter. Those "Klemmfix" clamps are very useful, as @snowhead mentioned.
From the link, might be worth investigating, the fixing rings may allow adjustment of the box after fixing,

Slightly cringe-y video, but it explains the concept:
 
Hi there, I work for Swtch - happy to answer your questions as best as I can. We have quite a few bits of information on fitting round boxes, such as a couple of videos from the manufacturer of the boxes. As you probably know, round boxes are the norm in most European countries, so there is a wealth of experience and tools available. Probably best if you get in touch via [email protected] and we'll send you some more specific links.

Is it only solid walls you need to fit the switches/sockets in, or do you have plasterboard ones too? Drilling a round hole in board for each box is actually much quicker, but in brick it's obviously a different matter. Those "Klemmfix" clamps are very useful, as @snowhead mentioned.
We'll that's a bit of luck 😀.
Another question has popped up after watching the video clip.
I think most of the boxes will be going into brick walls. It looks like the plastic rings that go around the box stop the box from initially being flush with the wall. They seem to stick out about 10mm. This then gets plastered in.
What happens if the majority of walls are not being plastered? Just the chases and sockets being plastered in. It seems a bit crazy that you have to plaster an entire wall if you are just fitting one new socket into it.
 
Surely if fitting in a wall, (solid) instead of having to bolster out a rectangle it is easier to core drill a round hole to depth and then break the core out.
 
We'll that's a bit of luck 😀.
Another question has popped up after watching the video clip.
I think most of the boxes will be going into brick walls. It looks like the plastic rings that go around the box stop the box from initially being flush with the wall. They seem to stick out about 10mm. This then gets plastered in.
What happens if the majority of walls are not being plastered? Just the chases and sockets being plastered in. It seems a bit crazy that you have to plaster an entire wall if you are just fitting one new socket into it.
As @kropaske says, they are really intended for walls that are going to be plastered afterwards. But I had a quick search on a couple of German electricians' forums and a few people there say that they use the Klemmfix clamps for unplastered finishes too, by cutting off the 4 little "grabber" hooks once the box is in:

Customer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything! kaiser-1056-klemmfix - EletriciansForums.net

As for your comment about the boxes being perfectly level, the advantage of round boxes is of course that you can rotate them a bit (until the bonding has set). Also, the switch/socket inserts can still be rotated as well before tightening the screws:

Customer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything! thpg-instructions-A5-flyer-1g-toggle-02-colour - EletriciansForums.net
Customer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything! thpg-instructions-A5-flyer-1g-toggle-01-colour - EletriciansForums.net

Hope that helps!
 
As @kropaske says, they are really intended for walls that are going to be plastered afterwards. But I had a quick search on a couple of German electricians' forums and a few people there say that they use the Klemmfix clamps for unplastered finishes too, by cutting off the 4 little "grabber" hooks once the box is in:

View attachment 98885

As for your comment about the boxes being perfectly level, the advantage of round boxes is of course that you can rotate them a bit (until the bonding has set). Also, the switch/socket inserts can still be rotated as well before tightening the screws:

View attachment 98886
View attachment 98887

Hope that helps!
Yes, it does 😊. Thankyou.
 
This is one I took out of the German built kit house. There were little tabs that screwed up on the sides, but they fell off - lost in the van somewhere.
The smaller screws are what hold the accessory in place.

The hollow walls in this particular house were plasterboard with wood sheet behind… but that might have been only in the room I was in as it was plant room…. Boiler, consumer unit etc.

Drilling a round hole… with corer or holesaw does seem a quicker way…. But for plasterboard? A pad saw can make quick work of a square hole.

Customer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything! A82E9D3F-7BD3-40C3-8FF8-B84D2615378E - EletriciansForums.netCustomer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything! 5C774256-6FED-4184-AC54-0D0CF2F10BC1 - EletriciansForums.net

Customer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything! 435B1242-2A63-472D-85C6-446FC9EB3D0A - EletriciansForums.net
 
Wait while customers start wanting triangle shape accessories 😀 It'll be the next big fashion thing I reckon.
 
these are type of boxes that i have sometimes fitted which came with underfloor heating mats some of my customers have supplied to me


the boxes come with these long spouts
 
This is one I took out of the German built kit house. There were little tabs that screwed up on the sides, but they fell off - lost in the van somewhere.
The smaller screws are what hold the accessory in place.

The hollow walls in this particular house were plasterboard with wood sheet behind… but that might have been only in the room I was in as it was plant room…. Boiler, consumer unit etc.

Drilling a round hole… with corer or holesaw does seem a quicker way…. But for plasterboard? A pad saw can make quick work of a square hole.

View attachment 98913View attachment 98914

View attachment 98915
Thanks for taking the time to take pictures, that's kind of you.
 

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